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No chance of help to protect his homeland from belligerent invasion? You've got to cut the losses.
Then Russia can invade in another 10 years and take more. Yay! It can be an every-decade thing!
What he likely means "ending the war by diplomatic means" is not talking or negotiating with Russia. No, that would be worst heresy imaginable. When he has previously talked about the use of diplomacy to find peace, what he really means is for Ukraine redouble it's efforts to beg for more money and weapons, but also get US and Europe to put more pressure on countries like China and India to ditch Putin and support Ukraine instead. Zelensky has talked along these lines before. Make his position seem reasonable to those who who want Ukraine to seek settlement, when it really isn't any different from "Zelensky's peace plan" that can be summed up in demand Russia's unconditional surrender as a precondition to any kind of dialogue.
I fear it's this kinda crazy talk that we are looking at. Zelensky or his inner circle just bring themselves to talk to the Russians, nor can they talk about things like giving up even places like Crimea. They just can't give an inch and we all know what happens to the reeds that don't bend with wind.
Zelenskyy literally cannot advocate for negotiated peace. The Right wing nationalist elements of Ukraine's coalition will effectively murder him if that becomes his position. It remains to be seen what will happen to him when he's forced into it by the reality of the war and the waning of international support by his patron states.
He's likely just going to flee to US or UK in the end.
I want to end the war diplomatically, but only next year. Sorry, but some of our people need to die until I do what I already decided to do
It comes as German chancellor Olaf Scholz spoke with Mr Putin for the first time in nearly two years.
The German leader urged Mr Putin to pull his forces out of Ukraine and begin talks with Kyiv that would open the way for a “just and lasting peace”, the German government said.
The move was swiftly criticised by Mr Zelensky, who said the call had opened a “Pandora’s box” by undermining efforts to isolate the Russian leader.
“Now there may be other conversations, other calls. Just a lot of words,” said Mr Zelensky in his evening address on Friday. “And this is exactly what Putin has long wanted: it is extremely important for him to weaken his isolation and to conduct ordinary negotiations.”
Diplomacy in 2024 is bad actually. Only next year!
Truly the hero of our time.
lmao the war in ukraine really was just a Democrat political project
And their response to the genocide and pogroms in Palestine proved their hypocrisy.
i wonder if it was an american military industrial complex fueled excuse to create a new profit stream in a new proxy war between russia and nato.
ukraine is perfect because the russians will never give them up for a myriad of reasons and that guarantees that american military contractors will be able to milk profits from ukraine as a proxy battleground country for as long as both russia and the united states exist; longer than any of us here today.
The sanctions applied by the west have been the best thing that could have happened to the Russian economy in decades. Their import substitution policy accelerated and even after the war they will now have competitive industries that wouldn't have been considered economically viable had Russia continued to buy cheaper goods from the west. I sometimes think the continuation of the war is collusion by the US and Russia to keep both of their economies doing great at the expense of Europe, who are too busy with their hubris to realise they're getting screwed here.
i wonder how much of that economic progress will remain after the ukranian war.
It turns out actually making things is an important part of the economy and i don't think their increasing manufacturing capacity is going anywhere. And if the sanctions end it's even easier to keep making oil money
The Russian ruling class would need to disabuse themselves of neoliberal dogmas
in that case: i wonder how much "soviet union" is still lives in russia and whether or not there's enough to keep the economic progress from vanishing.
and the EU vassals went with it blindly
So it looks like it's finally happening?
The best time to take ceasefire was before.
The second best time is now
And they're still going for the second worst option: later
(The worst option would be never)
If they know they're going to end the war diplomatically, why are they delaying? Extremely cruel to the people fighting today who know their deaths are meaningless, that they're only dying cause it's still early.
Good news. Hopefully the bloodshed can be ended as soon as possible.
Shitlibs want endless war in Ukraine, till the last Ukrainian is dead.
The US won't allow it, the same way they didn't allow it the previous times.
The US is clearly starting to distance itself from project Ukraine now. That said, I don't expect that the US will alter its stance to simply admit that Russia has won. The most probable scenario is that Russia and the US will secretly negotiate a behind-the-scenes agreement, and the US will just cut aid to Ukraine while continuing to publicly engage in verbal posturing. The US admin will say that it has more pressing concerns with China and the Middle East, and it's now time for Europe to step up and assume a larger role. However, everyone knows that Europe is not any position to do so. Therefore, the conflict will likely end on Russian terms without the US openly admitting defeat. As an added bonus, the US will secure lucrative military contracts with European nations for decades to come.
Zelenskyyyyyy Russian asset confirmed
The best reason to end any war is to ask how everyone can just stop killing one another.
This is modern day civilization, not the barbarian hordes of Europe 1500 years ago.
We have a choice to act civilized or like our ignorant ancestors from thousands of years ago.
ask yourself in whose interest is it to continue this insane war.
War is a necessity as long as Imperialism remains the dominant contradiction in the world, we need to move beyond Capitalism to move beyond war.
Thousand years from now, the same statement will be made of us. We humans change little.
Humans change quite a bit depending on Mode of Production, which shapes culture and norms.
I absolutely disagree. Lots of history proves that we are still motivated by primal instincts of self preservation. It always comes down to that.
However, the way these primal instincts are expressed obviously changes based on the rules of societies we create. USSR and post-Soviet Russia serves as a perfect real world example. The same people who generally acted in the interest of society under socialist structures quickly learned how to become oligarchs under the capitalist set of rules. In effect, the way society is structured acts as a selection pressure for human behavior.
Lots of history proves that humans behaved differently based on the economic system in place. Why do you believe slavery has largely been abolished? Did humans suddenly change their minds about it?
You’re thinking to high level. I’m talking about what actually drives us. Slavery has been largely abolished (but not really) because it’s out of fashion. We haven’t fundamentally changed the way we think. We’re far more alike our ancient ancestors than we think.
No, slavery was abolished because of technological progress and changes in Mode of Production. I'm thinking in a Historical Materialist perspective, there wasn't a random beaming of empathy in humanity.
Whatever, you’re missing the point.
No, I'm not. I am saying you are taking an abstract, idealist analysis that misses real historical motivations.
You dont have a point other than people bad. It's the most insipid, unthinking comment you could possibly make.
I wonder how Zionist Biden would feel -if it all- once Russia annexes parts of Ukraine. Probably how he felt about Israel annexing Palestinian and Syrian lands. His underling Blinken even defended Israel's annexation of the Golan Heights.
The idea that it is possible to "diplomacy" your way out of conflict with a dictator is so absurd I want to laugh my ass off, but unfortunately it isn't funny at all.
Putin will happily send every last Russian in to the meat grinder before he accept defeat, and now that he has his American buddy back in place, now with added musk funds, it is seriously delusional to think the situation is going to do anything other than escalate.
Zelenskyy is being beyond naive at best (I honestly don't believe he believes in what he's saying).
Oh wow, you got the tankies to come out in force
How to say you're historically illiterate without saying you're historically illiterate. 👆
conflict with a dictator
Only one of these leaders is unelected, and it’s not the one you think.
Putin will happily send every last Russian in to the meat grinder before he accept defeat
I doubt that, but its moot since Russia would inevitably win this war of attrition without having to do it. Also, the whole Russian meat grinder/meat wave thing is just recycled WWII Nazi war propaganda BS.
now that he has his American buddy back in place
CIA "Cooked The Intelligence" To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
now with added musk funds
Right, Enron Musk is personally keeping the Russian economy afloat with his own money 😂 This one really takes the cake.
Logistically, how should Ukraine have held an election earlier this year, on account of dealing with an active invasion and contested territory?
I don’t know. How should Ukraine have held an election when it has banned eleven political parties? Ukraine had a US-backed coup ten years ago[1][2]. It is nothing close to a democracy.
Ok but that doesn't change that they're being actively invaded by Russia right now. That does tend to put a pretty big damper on a country's ability to conduct secure elections.
Do you believe the elections in Russia are held fairly? I was under the impression that there are a lot of issues with political repression and electrical fraud, but admit that some of those notions could be more propaganda than reality. I'll be reading more into Russian electoral politics and history in the meanwhile.
From what I read so far, it looks like Russia actually did hold elections for their own government within occupied Ukrainian territory. I'm not sure what to make of that.
Wtf is with you people claiming you know what's best for these countries? Its like you're larping as the us state dept.
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this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2024
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