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submitted 5 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[-] Tugboater203@lemmy.world 15 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's nice to think about taking your ball and going home. However, if we denigrate Texas everytime they threaten to secede we really shouldn't be giving California a pass.

Edit- fix fat finger spelling

[-] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 5 months ago

I don't denigrate Texas every time they say they're gonna secede. In fact, I want them to. If they don't want to be a part of America, then let them go do their own thing. If that turns out to be a bad move for them, then that's on them.

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's a moot point anyway, though, because the ruling post-Civil war (Texas v. White, specifically) determined that unilateral secession was not allowed. In order for California to leave they would either have to come to an agreement with the Federal government to do so (or a majority of all other state legislatures, or something... there's no precedent) or fight a war against the rest of the union and win, forcing capitulation and a concession.

Both possibilities seem extremely remote.

This is only posturing, and even if it passes it is not designed to result in California actually leaving the union.

[-] Ebby@lemmy.ssba.com 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Can we coordinate with Oregon and Washington to join Canada?

That aside, California leads the US in many ways, but we have a tendency to go too far and do really dumb things. We're pretty good at self congratulations even when other states stare, slack-jawed at our blunders. It's nice to have perspective.

[-] blakenong@lemmings.world 3 points 5 months ago
[-] Draegur@lemm.ee 3 points 5 months ago

i freaking love the idea of Cascadia becoming autonomous and independent. I'd love it if New England did that too.

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[-] dilroopgill@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Can we get hawaii too for our corrupt politician's vacation homes

[-] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Honestly at this point I feel the US would do great by splitting and becoming a confederation (think EU styles autonomy).

I think the differences are just too big to have a functioning state.

I also understand that the push towards these movements is often done by Russian propaganda, who want to do anything to split up the US and NATO.

[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I live in the EU, there are some good things but also ineffeciencies living in a confederation style government. To be fair, while consumer and labour protection in the EU has been amazing, we have to admit that there is almost no innovation in R&D going on in Europe as a whole compared to the US. Aside from strict regulations, this is because there is no single rule on how to promote R&D. Each countries have their own rules and promotions. Some states are innovators like Germany, or has no R&D at all like Ireland.

Another weakness that the EU has is on production and defense. As you rightly pointed out, Russia wants the West to fragment, and Russia wants the EU to remain chaotic when it comes to military production and have a disunited, if not an incoherent, European army. But external influence is not even the main issue, the main issue is that many EU countries are neutral like Ireland and Austria, who are not part of NATO. I don't know about Austria but it's very unpopular here in Ireland to join any military alliance and there is a negative image of NATO after the Iraq War. Finland and Sweden used to be anti-NATO until the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And with the legacy of the horrors of the Second World War, military production in Europe has been weak. Even though the EU has outstripped the US in terms of giving aid to Ukraine, much of these are non-military because European arms industries are struggling to produce. The US is still the primary military donor of Ukraine.

With different competing values and priorities, it's challenging for the EU to remain confederate. A lot of people advocate for the EU to federalise for this reason.

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[-] BoobaAwooga@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

This could lead to a civil war if enough states leave with Cali. What a shitty time to be alive that it has even come to this

[-] Montagge@lemmy.zip 4 points 5 months ago

We honestly never really finished the last one. Reconstruction got the rug pulled out from underneath it.

[-] blazeknave@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

We have a history of being soft on treason

[-] RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 5 months ago

In part because we only exist due to treason.

[-] shplane@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

At least the American revolution wasn’t about keeping slavery

[-] RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 5 months ago

No, but the second was, and at this rate the third one probably will be.

[-] icecreamtaco@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's not come to anything. They tried this a few years ago and it failed. "approved for signature gathering" doesn't mean shit

[-] ech@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago

No could about it. It absolutely would.

[-] doingthestuff@lemy.lol 2 points 5 months ago

Remember how the federal government treated the south when they tried to secede. And people still celebrate it, not without good reason. But they didn't just go to war to stop it, they burned the south to the ground.

[-] HK65@sopuli.xyz 3 points 5 months ago

Well, there are two big differences.

The ethical one, the South wanted to secede to keep their slaves, and to clarify because the term slavery has been run ragged by propaganda, they wanted to keep their forced labour/death camps where they could kill, maim, rape, buy and sell people, also children, and have them do backbreaking, crippling work to enrich themselves.

On the other hand, California is contemplating this because the South, after losing their war, did a 200 year psyop to get a rapist and a bona-fide sieg heiling Nazi in power to force California to drop initiatives that would keep the Earth inhabitable and let their citizens live in peace.

The pragmatic one is that while the South was what it was, California is still an economic powerhouse accounting for 20% of the US economy. If they would secede, and bring a few like-minded states with them, it's not the least bit implausible that the South would be doing the burning again.

All that said, the Russians and the Chinese are salivating at this idea I'm sure.

[-] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

But they didn't just go to war to stop it, they burned the south to the ground.

Do that to CA and you're shooting yourself in the foot as the US

Destroying your most important ports and where more than 50% of your agriculture nationwide comes from is not a good idea

[-] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

Which is exactly why they would burn it to the ground. The federal government would never let California, let alone any state, secede peacfully. They can't risk losing those resources and would destroy them before allowing them to be competition.

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[-] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago

please call it the "New California Republic"

[-] chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

As long as it doesn't end up like Shady Sands.

[-] T00l_shed@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

I know Cali won't HAVE to, but can they join Canada?

[-] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 months ago

If California could actually pull it off, sure. They're the largest economy in the United States, and a larger economy than many whole nations. Would any sane country turn that down?

[-] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 3 points 5 months ago

I know that a Canadian lawmaker offered to take Washington, Oregon and California as new provinces in response to Trump: https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/canadian-lawmaker-offers-take-washington-oregon-california-new-provinces/LPFT7I4AYBGCLHBKVOB2TIFQOQ/

[-] meyotch@slrpnk.net 2 points 5 months ago

Sorry California, you will have to negotiate with Colorado and Arizona for your water. So basically you have to take us with you.

[-] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 months ago

The negotiating:

If you don't give us water we wont send you the good you need to live

You'll die well before us in that waiting game, baby

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[-] AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

CA better get their hands on some ICBMs. Keep one pointed at DC, and another pointed at Mar-a-Lago. It's pretty much the only way a state can keep its sovereignty.

[-] Freefall@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago

This is stupid and a pointless gesture. Do something more productive with your time.

[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 1 points 5 months ago

For all of the reasons given, secession from the United States is a bad idea. But I'm going to keep banging this drum: The metropolises need to secede from their states, while staying part of the United States. Heck, Los Angeles County alone has more people than 40 of the states. It's about time that they got fair representation.

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this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2025
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