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So, Alec over the Technology Connections channel made an hour long video explaining the difference with kW and kWh (obviously with other stuff around it).

I'm living in northern Europe in an old house, with pretty much only electric appliances for everything. We do have a wood stove and oven, but absolute majority of our energy consumption is electricity. Roughly 24 000 kWh per year.

And, while eveything he brings up makes absolute sense, it seems like a moot point. In here absolutely everyone knows this stuff and it's all just common knowledge. Today we went into sauna and just turned a knob to fire up the 6,5kW heaters inside the stove and doing that also triggered a contactor to disengage some of the floor heating so that the thing doesn't overload the circuit. And the old house we live in pulls 3-4kW from the grid during the winter just to keep inside nice and warm. And that's with heat pumps, we have a mini-split units both on the house and in the garage. And I also have 9kW pure electric construction heater around to provide excess heat in case the cheap minisiplit in garage freezes up and needs more heat to thaw the outside unit.

And kW and kWh are still commony used measurement if you don't use electricity. Diesel or propane heaters have labels on them on how many watts they can output right next to the fuel consumption per hour and so on. So I'm just wondering if this is really any new information for anyone.

I assume here's a lot of people from the US and other countries with gas grid (which we don't really have around here), is it really so that your Joe Average can't tell the difference between 1kWh of heat produced by gas compared to electricity? I get that pricing for different power sources may differ, but it's still watt-hours coming out of the grid. Optimizing their usage may obviously be worth the effort, but it's got nothing to do with power consumption.

So, please help me understand the situation a bit more in depth.

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[-] Tudsamfa@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago

In here absolutely everyone knows this stuff and it’s all just common knowledge.

[-] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 week ago

Fair point, but basic physics has been a part of our education program for at least 60 years. Also for few years the 'exchange priced' or 'market valued' electricity has been somewhat popular and on the news, which adds up to the general understanding as if you know your stuff it means quite literal money as your bills are smaller. So, maybe 'absolutely everyone' is a bit of a stretch, but in general the majority of adult people understand the concept.

And also a ton of common folk understand it at least a bit on a deeper level as basic physics is included to studies beyond elementary school regardless on what you study. Sure, not everyone understands (or cares) how 3 phase AC in here adds up to 400V or why you need to have 2,5mm² wires for 16A fuse, but it's still pretty common that people, specially in a separate house, understand how you can only pull 2300W out of a 10A circuit or 3600W from a 16A one (10 and 16A being the most common fuses in a household in here).

[-] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 1 week ago

If you think the average person understands watts, you live in a bubble, straight and simple. You have a very skewed notion of the average person.

[-] Krudler@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

We live in a world where people demanded (and succeeded) in having the Meteorological Service of Canada to report windchill as "feels like C" instead of, ya know, a measure of actual heat loss in Watts / M^2 / s

[-] KingOfSuede@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

You say that like it’s a bad thing? I prefer not to dust off my slide rule everytime I want to know how cold it is out.

[-] Krudler@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

The first time they did the feels like scale... My father's colleagues were involved. They took a sample of people and put them in wind tunnels and sprayed them with water and said hey how's it going over there.

I wish more than anything I was joking right now.

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[-] transientpunk@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 week ago

I think you are greatly overestimating the basic functional knowledge of the general public...

[-] softcat@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 week ago

kW/kWh aren't commonly used outside of electrical applications in the US, so people are less readily able to quantify and compare in other contexts. Looking at a variety of natural gas companies' bills, you'll get volume multiplied by a therm factor instead of simply using kWh; horsepower for not just cars but even electrical motors and pumps.

I think the average person will have looked at their electricity bill and put the basics together about watts and watt hours. As for comparison with natural gas, I think he didn't touch on the real metric people then turn to- cost. Depending on the state it can be much cheaper to use gas vs electricity.

[-] Glitchvid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Yeah, electric motors are what I notice the most. Be it on washers/dryers, garbage disposals (which range from 1/3, 1/2, 3/4, 1HP) and more.

[-] futatorius@lemm.ee 8 points 1 week ago

So I’m just wondering if this is really any new information for anyone.

It's never wise to underestimate most people's ignorance.

[-] miridius@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

Saved you a click: power = rate of energy use (energy/time)

[-] scarabic@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

He says it so many times in so many ways that he actually starts to make it seem more complex than it is. You start wondering if you’re missing something, because you got it in 6 seconds but 12 minutes later he’s still talking about it.

[-] Septimaeus@infosec.pub 7 points 1 week ago

He’s making a point about instantaneous versus overall energy use, which it sounds like you already understand. “Power” and “energy” are already kind of loose terms, which could make that conversation confusing IMO.

But for anyone confused by this:

For the typical energy consumer, Watts (W, kW) are relevant when considering circuit capacity. Otherwise, Watt-hours (Wh, kWh) is likely the metric you’re looking for when considering energy use.

Concretely, your coffee maker might pull 1.2 kW while in use, more than most appliances in your house, yet it probably represents a minuscule portion of your electric bill, perhaps less than 1 kWh, since it only needs to boil a small amount of water with each use.

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[-] Emerald@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

Also check out his other video on his Connextras channel where he basically suggests dismantling capitalism.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2qSaD1v4cQ

[-] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 6 points 1 week ago

In here absolutely everyone knows this stuff and it's all just common knowledge.

Absolutely not. Not even close.

[-] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago

is it really so that your Joe Average can’t tell the difference between 1kWh of heat produced by gas compared to electricity?

Most people don't even know what a watt or watt/hour is. And have no idea how energy from gas relates to energy from electricity.

[-] boonhet@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago

watt/hour

Oh yeah I've seen that used before, makes me cringe every time.

Anyway, do must people not go to high school? Or is stuff like that not part of the physics curriculum in some places?

[-] kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago

A W/h either is a big problem or will be soon.

[-] boonhet@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I mean that depends on the sign of the W/h as well as your W/h^2^ and higher orders too. Maybe you're actually approaching zero watts :P

[-] pebbles@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

In my highschool physics was optional. You had multiple options for science credits and could get through without taking it.

[-] boonhet@lemm.ee 0 points 1 week ago

Oh, in my country you have to take physics, chemistry and biology. That actually goes for middle school too. Plus geography which actually also contains geology. And math could be considered science I guess.

We have elective courses too, but all the basics are mandatory. That includes at least two foreign languages, history, our own language, literature (becomes separate subject from language in high school), music, art (including history of both), basic computer usage, shop class for boys and home ec for girls (with trades in between so us boys still got to cook and stuff, plus in elementary school everyone gets to knit and crochet IIRC). Oh and physical education unless you're disabled, in which case you either get to watch or just do something else I think.

I'm actually sure I've missed something. These are all mandatory. You can do shit like folkdance or choir for electives, or many other things depending on school. I had philosophy as one of my electives lol

I think people in some countries (the US) don't even know what they're missing out on tbh.

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[-] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago

Even if it was covered in high school, I think because most people never use it again in daily life it's easy to forget.

[-] krimson@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago
[-] equinox86@lemm.ee 4 points 1 week ago

After watching the video it was a bit over explained. I think he got his point across in the first 10 minutes, though I am an engineer by trade.

I appreciate his rigour in explaining and it is a good refresher on the power/energy calculations.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

New Technology connections video drops:

I'm going to go buy a kill-a-watt.

[-] towelie@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago

I moved into a tiny home and got one for measuring the current draw of my kitchen appliances and keeping track of the cost of my electric space heater ($40/month so far, yeesh)

[-] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

I'm over here heating water in a kettle because of Technology Connections (and also pre-heating my dishwasher)

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Its the midwest pragmatism that sells it.

I just do what he says because it sounds so practical.

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[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

is it really so that your Joe Average can’t tell the difference between 1kWh of heat produced by gas compared to electricity?

Yup.

I totally understand electricity because it's pretty intuitive. Everything is advertised in watts, my bill comes as kilowatt hours, so it's pretty easy to calculate how much energy something uses by plugging in a kill-a-watt and measuring it.

My gas is billed in therms. I don't really know what that is, nor do I know what the flow rate is for my furnace or gas stove, so I have no concept for how much energy I'm using. I don't have an electric one to compare with, so I that's not an option either. So how exactly would I get to the point where I would be able to compare the two without a lot of annoying testing? Even then it would be extremely imprecise.

And no, it's not "watt hours coming out of the grid," except in the pedantic sense that they can be converted. They come from very different sources, so it's like comparing an EV to a horse, and while you could, it's completely nonsensical.

But yes, at some base level your average American knows there's a connection between the two (after all, I can choose between electric heat/heat pump and a gas furnace), but they'd rely on an expert to estimate the monthly price difference between options, since that's ultimately what we care about. The problem is mentioned near the end of the video, HVAC experts don't seem that familiar w/ heat pumps, so you may not get a decent estimate, depending on who your technician is. And that adds to the misinformation.

[-] lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago

People complaining about this video have clearly not watched much Technology Connections; I enjoyed it immensely. It's right in line with how Alec normally does his videos. We who are loyal to the Great Alec expect the pedantic content.

[-] fuzzy_feeling@programming.dev 2 points 1 week ago

haven't seen it so far, but technology connections will always get an upvote.

also consider subscribing to his channel, his videos are amazing.

[-] ftbd@feddit.org 2 points 1 week ago

Follow-up video idea: speed ≠ distance

[-] purplemonkeymad@programming.dev 7 points 1 week ago

The one that I think more people misunderstand is temperature Vs heat Vs something feeling hot/cold. One is a property, one is energy, and the other is the transfer of energy.

[-] Dasus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

You know a nation of people who may not be able to articulate their understanding, but definitely have a high intuitive understanding of that?

We Finns.

100C sauna and no problem sitting on wood, but happen to touch something metal and oooh-weee.

Also same thing happens the others way around when it's - 20c outside. I don't think there's many people in Finland who don't have a core memory of what cold metal tastes like in winter, because of the resulting trauma. And it doesn't even need to be metal to stick.

Nicely explained.

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[-] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

lot of people from the US with gas grid (which we don’t really have around here), is it really so that your Joe Average can’t tell the difference between 1kWh of heat produced by gas compared to electricity

Right, because for most people gas is metered and sold by the CCF, and not converted into kW at any point in the chain.

So I know i used 30ccf last month, but there's zero indication what that is in kW, because we usually don't convert between the meter (which is volumetric) and the billing, which could be anything but why bother?

[-] qupada@fedia.io 1 points 1 week ago

Reticulated gas is charged by the kWh here in New Zealand. The meter may well be calibrated in m³ (I don't have gas at home, so I don't know for sure) but all pricing is energy, not volume.

For bonus points, if instead you buy your gas in cylinders - a pair of 45kg (~100lb) cylinders is a common installation for houses without piped gas - those are sold simply by the unit. The best conversion for that I can find is one energy retailer describing one 45kg cylinder as 2200MJ (611kWh).

I expect this is one of those things that is overall horribly inconsistent depending on where you live.

[-] Creat@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 week ago

Also from Europe, gas is measured/billed in kWh here as well.

[-] zymagoras777@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago

Not everywhere, in Lithuania they charge per m³.

[-] crystalmerchant@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Power is water throughput in a pipe, energy is water filling a bucket. Simplest way I've found to explain it in my 15 years in the energy space.

[-] czardestructo@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Power is a measurement of the velocity and volume of water flowing through a pipe at a given instant*

I'm so sorry, I am officially 'that guy', taking a simple analogy and making it annoying...

[-] Sporkbomber@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago

I think it's simple enough without even using analogies to explain. The unit Watt is Joules per second. Multiply by units of time and you get the total units of energy in Joules. Watt and Watt Hour are just that with without the additional units showing or being simplified.

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this post was submitted on 30 Mar 2025
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