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[-] Depress_Mode@lemmy.world 35 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

No stupid questions time: This kind of lurks in the back of my mind and I sometimes find myself hesitating to use the term "female" to refer to female figures in any context. I don't have to do that, right? Like, would "woman lawyer" be better than "female lawyer" in contexts where specifying gender might be relevant? I would conversely prefer the term "male lawyer" in the same context and "man lawyer" sounds just as odd to me as "woman lawyer". "Lawyer who is a woman" is a little verbose, too. Am I overthinking this?

[-] MisterMoo@lemmy.world 46 points 2 weeks ago

Sorry but “woman” is not an adjective and its use that way is grating. You wouldn’t say “man teacher” and it sounds wrong. So does “woman lawyer” or “woman voter.”

The neckbeard/incel thing is using “female” when “woman” would be acceptable and more common, like “look at these females” or something. It doesn’t mean we have to abolish the word “female” entirely from the lexicon.

[-] Depress_Mode@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, that seems to align nicely with the instincts I outlined in my comment. No need to apologize. Thanks!

[-] ch00f@lemmy.world 37 points 2 weeks ago

My personal rule is female adjective is okay, female noun is not.

[-] Depress_Mode@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

From what I googled, it's especially bad when you pair "man" and "female" together, which makes sense to me.

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Just don't use male or female as nouns to refer to humans. That simple. If you're talking about animals it doesn't matter.

[-] skisnow@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 weeks ago

If you’re talking about animals it doesn’t matter.

Not even that it doesn't matter, it's almost entirely the point. The reason why using 'females' as a noun to refer to women is dehumanizing is because it's a noun we use for animals.

[-] hangry@slrpnk.net 10 points 2 weeks ago

My personal take is to just use lawyer, when gender is irrelevant. This may get your audience confused when using "she" in the next sentence. But it could help weaken the stereotypes about genders if we did this more often IMHO.
If needed "female lawyer" or "lawyer who is a woman" are good otherwise.

[-] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago

I know, use the worst of all options, "lawyeress." /s

[-] hangry@jlai.lu 3 points 2 weeks ago

Waiter = Waitress
Lawyer = Lawyress

Lawyer femoid 😒
lawyeoid 😏

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[-] echodot@feddit.uk 6 points 2 weeks ago

Best be safe and call them "girl lawyer"

[-] saltesc@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I work in statistics and we never use girl of woman, only female. The line is vastly different in age and meaning depending on culture, religion, law, or heritage. Even in western societ, 13, 16, 18, and 21 are all valid before tipping to 40, 50, 60, 65, 68, and 70 where the term can be prefixed with some form of adjective.

It's old-fashioned. Just say female and every culture/society understands you without confusion or insult. Save you embarassing/insulting people while travelling too.

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

They're just called lawyers, unless they're lawyering with their genitals and their sex is somehow relevant.

[-] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago

There are obviously still contacts where the distinction is important.

[-] lagoon8622@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago

Such as discussing discrimination, statistics, etc

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

Maybe from an equity perspective, but not from a lawyer perspective. So you'd probably say "we need more women in law".

Because the topic is women. If the topic was lawyering, then sex won't come up.

[-] DannyBoy@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago

"70% of lawyers suffer discrimination in the workplace but only 30% of lawyers face discrimination."

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[-] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 28 points 2 weeks ago
[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 6 points 2 weeks ago

Yes that's the issue, if you use them inconsistently. Males, females. Men, women. Same for boys, girls actually. Saying boys and women or men and girls can seem belittling to the other.

[-] MeatPilot@lemmy.world 25 points 2 weeks ago

"You let them wear clothes?"

[-] Pinklink@lemm.ee 23 points 2 weeks ago

I was once explaining to someone how a group of my family is part of a “religion” which is really a cult. I was saying how females (being inclusive of the adult women and young girls) in this cult have no body autonomy and how fucked up it is. I was interrupted to be informed that the term female should not be used. They interrupted my explanation of how my fucking family member is being forced to get pregnant over and over, how the girls are being treated like property or pets, because correcting my use of the word female was more important. I will never forget or forgive this moment. I hope this anecdote highlights priorities for everyone that has such a strong opinion about this. Also, I imagine if I wasn’t male, this would have been a nonissue. I don’t know about anyone else, but I actually do want equality. Double standards are outdated.

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[-] Wilco@lemm.ee 17 points 2 weeks ago

Not fair to the military veterans.

They got "That's not a woman, it's a female soldier" drilled into them.

[-] mle86@feddit.org 12 points 2 weeks ago

That may be but if they would shorten "female soldier", wouldn't they refer to her as "a soldier" and not "a female"?

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[-] 1984@lemmy.today 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Soldiers have a lot more than that drilled into them. Obeying authority, pushing down your own emotions, lots of shit.

I would never be a soldier. A fighter if needed, but not joining any traditional military. It will kill your soul.

[-] Cocopanda@futurology.today 10 points 2 weeks ago

And from friends personal experiences. Your back and knees die in the service.

[-] HappySkullsplitter@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

After having been in the military, it's weird to hear people talk about the military who have never served.

Obeying authority? Sure, until ranking up and becoming the authority.

Pushing down emotions? More like learning to have control over our emotions, where those emotions do not control us.

Never be a soldier, but a fighter if needed?

That's basically what I did. Most military jobs are non-combat that are trained to fight if needed but if they are needed than we've got way bigger problens than just fighting.

It will kill your soul? I for one certainly have regrets, but my soul feels intact.

Not everyone should join the military, it's certainly not for everyone. Some people who thought it was all they ever wanted to do find out quickly that it's not for them and leave. Others who thought they'd just join for 4 years for the college money and bail end up making a career of it and retire after 20 years.

I'm indifferent, I just did my 4 years and got out.

[-] 1984@lemmy.today 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Fair points. Its just that so many soldiers seem to he traumatized by what they experience. If you didnt see much combat, of course you wont be affected by that.

I would fight for a good leader. Someone with wisdom, courage, integrity. Those people are very rare.

None of the us presidents, or any world leaders meet that bar.

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[-] jojowakaki@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago

Cool it over there. I look like that but I don't call women females. That was very unwarranted.

[-] Salvia@lemmy.world 16 points 2 weeks ago

Also does anyone find it odd how often society calls grown women girls while they stick to men when referring to men without a second thought? I still do it when I'm not paying attention.

[-] abfarid@startrek.website 9 points 2 weeks ago

Stereotypically, women always strive to look as young as possible, so calling one a girl can be seen as a compliment. While men, stereotypically strive to appear mature, hence calling one a boy can be considered an insult.

[-] idiomaddict@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

I don’t disagree with you that society does think that way, but I disagree with the sentiment so much.

I’m 33 and afab. I accepted being called a “girl” until I was about 23 (probably not a coincidence that that was the age at which I graduated college), but it started chafing at like 16, even though I didn’t have a good alternative at the time (because I agree that “female” as a noun feels gross). If someone called me a girl now I would correct them without hesitation in basically every scenario outside of a eulogy or wedding speech.

I really wish there was a better option. I don’t really like “woman,” but it’s better than gal, lady, dudette, chick, or girl imo. I’m perfectly fine with guy or dude, especially in plural, but I’m probably an egg, so that colors my perspective for the singular use a little.

[-] abfarid@startrek.website 3 points 2 weeks ago

I honestly don't see this changing any time soon because there are biological incentives behind both stereotypes. And, anecdotally, my gf (40+) will pout if in some context I refer to her as a woman, and be like "noooo, I'm a girl... :(". Semi-jokingly, of course, but only semi.

[-] Salvia@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

Same as the other reply, I don't disagree. Do I think there's mal intent? Nah. But I'm sure this has an unconscious effect on how we perceive women. Besides lots of women look young without even trying, I think with the improvement of medicine and public health, people in general are just looking younger nowadays so we should nip this habit in the butt.

[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 6 points 2 weeks ago

Fun use of "boys" has been really popular for quite some time. Me and the boys. Boys will be boys.

[-] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 weeks ago

Hell, a business or industry run primarily by men in their fifties and older can be referred to as "a boys club."

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[-] mienshao@lemm.ee 5 points 2 weeks ago

As a man, this has legit always bugged me. We use “girls” in contexts that we would NEVER use “boys” in, even when they’re the same age.

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 5 points 2 weeks ago

I just view it as a quirk of the language. "Guys and girls" or "guys and gals" are paired words. Guy is a casual way to refer to men, so I think people use girl as a casual way to refer to women because it's sort of the pair to guy. Lady feels too formal.

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[-] Thcdenton@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

Anecdotal but most people I hear using 'female' are women.

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[-] peregrin5@lemm.ee 9 points 2 weeks ago

Honestly, a handsome specimen of the Ferengi species. I hear he was even the Grand Nagus briefly. And look at those lobes.

[-] andros_rex@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

Gotta love how “”””radfems”””” love the term “adult human female” too.

[-] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Trans women are adult human females.

[-] andros_rex@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

True. It’s just a slogan in the same way that “being White is all right” is or “All Lives Matter” is. It’s not supposed to mean what it means. It’s a code.

Like - once, 4chan (/pol/ and /b/ primarily, early mid 2010s) that it would be funny to make drinking milk a racist thing. It was explicitly discussed how this would make people upset about people drinking milk, and how this would be funny. The alt right weirdos in on the joke get the joke, leftists are befuddled and outraged, the stupid conservative weirdos are laughing at the dumb liberals and their cancel culture getting worked up about milk. Same thing with that pinched thumb and index finger “okay” symbol. 14 and 88 have lost their plausible deniability in most spaces at least.

Very similarly, the idea of MAPS was a /pol/ operation that was carried out to delegitimize the LGBT movement. The idea of people identifying with a sexual orientation based on being exclusively attracted to children, to the point of creating a pride flag, was mostly a /pol/ op. This is not to say that there aren’t creeps who did actually identify as such as a consequence of this movement, but it wasn’t a natural movement of creeps.

Language games. The limits of my language are the limits of my world. They mean something entirely different even in just human there.

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 2 weeks ago

Obviously the exclusionary group is going to exclude the people they don't like with their slogans though. Trans exclusionary radical feminists don't believe trans women are women. The "adult human female" shit across from them "defining woman" or something to that effect.

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this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2025
619 points (96.3% liked)

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