I don't want to be convinced that Zoos are bad or something, I want the points that might make them bad and the general thought you have on other things like that, I asked here because I want it from a point of view from people who also see human exploitation as a bad thing yk.

cross-posted from: https://vegantheoryclub.org/post/57040

Introducing to the Vegan Theory Club Lemmy!

This is a link sharing site for vegan things. We have open registration if you want to create an account and log in.

We host four communities which are like "subreddits"

1. Vegan Home Cooks
2. Vegan Recipes
3. Gardening
4. Vegan

The communities are here to help share links and photos for vegans by vegans.

!homecooks@vegantheoryclub.org is a site for a discord server called Vegan Home Cooks Discord. This is a low-friction post-what-you-cooked community so we can share what we made today and talk about it, no recipes required. We want to provide motivation and encouragement for each other and show off what we made today.

!recipes@vegantheoryclub.org is focused on how to cook and links to recipe sites.

!gardening@vegantheoryclub.org is focused on our gardens, plants, hydroponics and learning how to do it. Some of us are pros and some are just learning and want to post what we're reading and what we're doing.

!vegan@vegantheoryclub.org is for general vegan news, I don't really know what to do with this one.

If these don't show up on your home instance please search for them on your instance to subscribe and federate the posts for everyone on your insance!

The book in question is The Vegetarian Myth and it is full of arguments of a similar caliber

Omni Consumer Products

“I dabble, but not in the way that I used to before,” she said, adding the recent waves of anti-Israel encampments at Columbia and other universities prompted brief relapses.

caseomorphins: not even once

apologies if I missed a content warning or if this kind of article is inappropriate for the comm

The iron absorption of lentils isn't great, though... but I'm trying to think of ways to increase my iron intake because mine is low.

The hardest thing is that you have to soak the lentils overnight. And you will need a blender or food processor. The best part is it's high in protein.

Definitely giving @Sickos@hexbear.net's comment some credit here!

This is a bit of a follow-up to this post. Someone responded to my analogy this way, and I'm just baffled that you can seriously say something like this to go so hard to defend babystepping.

no one will argue with you that 0 kids in the basement is better than 5 or 10, but it's still objectively better to have 5 than 10.

Imagine typing this and hitting send. Holy shit.

Also, I wasn't vegan from birth, but I sure as hell wish I fucking was. I regret every moment I supported the exploitation of animals. I also got convinced to go vegan by listening to ethical vegans who were really staunch in expressing just how fucking bad the way we treat other species is. If I got a bunch of apologists who told me "You can go vegan at whatever slow pace you like and it's totally fine and ethical!", then I would be so damn uneducated and blind to the truth.

To quote this genius who sent me this reply, "Exactly."

One of the most common talking points that I hear from people who are advocates of leather, especially those who work within fashion, is that leather is simply a byproduct of the meat industry. The claim that it is simply a by-product of the animal agriculture industry is used as their justification to buy leather products because they think that they're just the waste of the meat industry and that they are up-cycling material that would otherwise be thrown away. What these proponents of leather never address though is that these so called "by-products" are just another way in which the meat industry profits and that leather would not exist in the first place if it weren't for the raising and butchering of animals! Like I am genuinely baffled that people believe that the meat industry doesn't proliferate its existence through the selling of things like animal skin and the other remains that aren't flesh. Of course this doesn't even touch on the environmental impact required to produce leather, which includes that of the meat industry that raises the animals (which has a horrific impact already) plus the additional awful production practices like chrome tanning that are extremely common in the leather making process.

Also, a thing that especially irritates me in the TikTok video that I linked is the creator equating faux leather with plastic leather or pleather, when faux leather encompasses more than just pleather and contains leather alternatives that aren't made from plastic! That seems like something you should know as someone whose job requires a large knowledge of textiles/materials but I guess he for whatever reason doesn't know that or at least doesn't mention it

This is the comment verbatim:

"To everybody that disagrees with this: do you grow your own food at home to ensure not a single crop death? If not, you’re not a perfect vegan either."

This was on a post on a "vegan" meme account that promoted "reducetarianism." Mind you, this person says they're a vegan!

HOLY SHIT! I'm baffled as to how you can be a vegan yet regurgitate one of the most overdone, shitty, level 0 (if I'm being generous) carnist talking points.

What factory are these people created in? How the hell are we supposedly adhering to the same ethics on animal liberation but view the matter on entirely different premises?

When I criticized this person, by the way, he told me to "stop infighting" because I'm "on the same side" as him.

insert Gus Fring "We Are Not the Same" meme

Carnists make me sleepy so I go nap

I'm starting from nothing... essentially just a microwave and a range. I need to know what to stock a tiny studio apartment with. I'm just learning how to cook, so no suggestion is too obvious!

I found out she's vegan through checking out her profile having the Ⓥ in her display name and her bio literally says (cut and paste):

"be kind to animals or I'll kill you"

end speciesism

Despite this, she is accusing me of anti-Semitism because I made a comment staunchly condemning Zionism, and when I wrote this comment that you see in the image, she didn't give a proper rebuttal. All she fucking said was:

of course you stalked my page 💀

The skull emoji is really telling.

It's like your average Instagram user is a bot produced in a factory where their brains have logic, reason, and reading comprehension skills extracted out of them.

I got into Veganism about 8 months ago now, and it was much easier than I thought it was going to be. Where it got difficult for me was when food was getting wasted. I have always been really good about not wasting things, and even eating other people's food if it was going to waste. Problem is nobody else around me eats vegan. At first I would eat the food anyway, and just continue eating plant-based as I normally would, but I've reached a point where I don't even want to eat animal product at all, so it goes to waste. Has anybody else had, or have, this problem, or is it just some autistic "quirk" I have involving inefficiency and waste.

(also happens at restaurants on the rare chance that I actually go, get something, and they get the order wrong)

It seems the fairer sex has taken to the fairer diet in greater numbers than their male counterparts. According to the data, a full 9% of women in the United States now identify as vegan, compared to a paltry 3% of men.

Zoe Rosenberg, an American animal rights activist and founder of the Happy Hen Animal Sanctuary, shares her experiences of protesting against animal cruelty and being charged for animal rescues. Growing up with a deep love for animals, Rosenberg became a direct action animal rights activist, organizing protests and rescues. She recounts her involvement with Direct Action Everywhere (DXE) and the arrests and convictions of its co-founder, Wayne, for animal rescues. Rosenberg also shares her personal experiences with being charged for rescuing dogs and facing harsh punishments, emphasizing her commitment to animal rights despite the challenges. The speakers express their frustration with the legal system's treatment of animal cruelty cases and encourage viewers to get involved in animal activism beyond veganism, including attending protests and visiting animal sanctuaries. They also discuss the intelligence and worth of farmed animals and encourage viewers to support individuals legally pursued for rescuing animals. Its time to save animals beyond veganism!

Vegetarians who say this shit say they enjoy getting encouragement from vegans, but they actually just want a pat on the back and brownie points from susceptible vegans, not actual encouragement.

This is the greatest encouragement I can give them, but because it's in an "aggressive" tone, they love to say "You're the reason why people shy away from going vegan!"

Sorry to tell ya, but if some harsh words promoting the very ideological foundation of veganism are enough to discourage you, then you clearly don't have a plan to "transition" to veganism to begin with.

Imagine telling someone "You really need to stop being fucking racist." and then they say "Ugh! I'm working on it! You being so pushy makes me want to be more racist actually!"

The cheese rots into their brains apparently.

Long live Lenin, long live the Soviet motherland!

Most humans aren't vegan for three reasons:

1. Material conditions. As a child, I saw children being kind to stray cats and dogs by feeding them. From what my parents said, they saw kids abusing stray animals and birds. So with better material conditions, people's treatment of animals changes.

2. Social norms. For men, being vegan is sometimes a "feminine" thing. For women, refusing to cook carnist food for your husband is unwelcome (at best) and dangerous (at worst).

3. Consumerism. You're conditioned to eat burgers, you're brainwashed to believe you need meat, your TV series never show vegans in good light (haha their food is boring XDDDD). The animal-industrial complex funds disinformation think tanks, assassinations, lobbyists to keep their business afloat.

Is there "natural" speciesism? No idea.

If humans are heartless by nature, then they must at least reduce animal ag to simply not destroy our planet and public health. They don't do that. To me it looks like animal ag propaganda is not only hostile to anti-speciesism, but to any reforms. Even environmentalists can't stop animal ag. So maybe there is hope to make the world vegan, after the world become socialist?

Lots of carnists pretend to be socially progressive, but eating meat is as bad as racism or transphobia. So you're not socially progressive if you eat meat (or dairy, or eggs). We know that the proletariat is very conservative these days, we must convince them to fight for socialism. For that, all successful movements like the Bolsheviks allowed socially conservative folk to join. No revolution succeeded without your woodworker Ivan and farmer Vladimir, who still have reactionary ideas. These ideas will disappear. So we should ok carnist leftists until capitalism is dead, unless they are actively counterrevolutionary.