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this post was submitted on 10 Jan 2025
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chapotraphouse
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No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
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These fires have left me kind of anxious, not over the possibility of losing my belongings or even the home that my partner and I have managed to buy together. I'm terrified of losing our future. It's so clear now how fragile it all is. One disaster could ruin any hope we have of keeping a home and saving money for retirement one day. And this is happening right now to thousands of people. Historically LA fires have mostly impacted wealthy neighborhoods, but this is something else. I know someone whose home burned down that they just bought a few months ago. They are completely fucked.
Edit: In case there's some confusion, I'm not talking about rich suburbs burning down. Yes, of course the mcmansions in the hills are going first. Those idiots insist on living in some of the most flammable regions on the planet and can afford to rebuild over and over. I'm not going to try to justify whether I deserve my home, but it's a single bedroom condo "worth" under half the median price in LA that I share with my partner. If it burns down, we'll be priced out of a home permanently while paying off a mortgage for a pile of ash for the next 20 years.
Living in climate change is playing Russian roulette and every year your odds get worse
Whew thank God I'm never going to be rich enough to afford either. Genuinely kinda more worried about the hundreds of millions of people who are going to die from climate change, who the hell gives a shit whether the American middle class loses their hope or whatever.
We're all on the same team here, it's all the same story
I'm not so fucking sure I'm on the same team as middle-class americans, but sure.
Middle class is an arbitrary distinction we are all workers
Now what can definitely be said is that your typical American is a reactionary racist beyond salvation but that's true regardless of income, and if this is your point I don't disagree
It's not entirely arbitrary. The middle classes are what people are referring to when they talk about the Petit Bourgeoise & "Labor Aristocracy". Still, peppersky is perhaps taking things a bit too personally.
I'm not crying for some roaches with million dollar homes getting what was coming to them. The United States uses more power for air conditioning than all of south america uses for existing. Fuck em. Fuck their houses, fuck their retirements. They'll hold on to their white picket fences until the rest of the world has burned into nothing but ash. We can and will do without them. These wildfires, all the wildfires to come are nothing compared to what climate change will wrestle upon the rest of the world.
One way of thinking I guess... The other is that these people live in the imperial core and had these decisions largely thrust upon them. They're indoctrinated. It's a similar inclination to hating the descendants of Jews that the Nazis shipped to the burgeoning colony in Palestine in the lead up to the Holocaust. If we're completely abandoned the idea that these people are reachable and can organize and avert the worst outcomes, then sure. I'm not so certain they're unreachable though. A lot of them, even most of them, definitely are in my experience.
All true, but fuck them anyway. The 2022 pakistan floods destroyed 800.000 houses and killed 1700 people. That's where my sympathy goes, to the people who didn't profit from the ravenous extraction of natural resources and the destruction of our whole planets ecosystem for the last two centures, but who as always bear the brunt of the destructive forces behind capitalism. Why should my sympathy go to the american middle-class of all people, just because they've colonized the whole world and have made their gentrifying destroying way of life the default? The middle-class in america is in no way closer to me or more important than any other poor person in any other part of the world.
Dude, I'm a house owner. Do you think I don't even deserve this shitty 511 square foot house that has put me into the category of being house-poor? Do you think I deserve to have my house burned down. You're a fool who has bought into the concept of the middle class which is a class division useful for the bourgeoisie.
Yeh, if I’m not missing something this guy is attacking people that are like the majority of us…just trying to make it through this shit show called life. Slag the rich off all you like, but people like the person that started this thread don’t deserve hate. Unless they bought a house in a known fire area or use their air con maxed out every day.
Yup. My partner and I were able to buy a home when prices were low and we were able to save up money, but those circumstances don't seem likely to come around for us again. If our house was destroyed, we'd be thrust right back into perpetual renting.
While I can empathize with losing everything in a fire, the only explanation I can come up with for your comment is that the homes and their contents aren't insured for their replacement value. The only two explanations I've got for that are that people aren't fiscally literate or insurance companies refused to insure for fire in that area.
Why are people "completely fucked"? Did they own houses that they couldn't afford to insure or that couldn't be insured?
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/05/what-homeowners-need-to-know-as-insurers-leave-high-risk-climate-areas.html
This happened in 2023. Some people who had fire insurance before were suddenly left with very limited options; some far out of their price range in a city that already has an incredible COL and competitive labor market. Where does financial literacy come into this at all? A lot of people stay in these areas because they are affordable and they have a good job for the area that they are complete with transportation infrastructure. You were correct on your second assumption though, they refused to insure new homes in certain areas past 2023.
People are going to become increasingly more fucked because this is the beginning of climate change. More and more will change. Not just here, but globally where far more people will straight up die because of it. It's just hitting in the core especially hard right now.
Also; losing your home and your belongings in a fire is a pretty fucked position to be in. Even with a decent savings it's a lot to plan for, expensive and insurance will try to fuck you any way they can. People are shooting insurance executives here.
I don't think I asked my question near as well as you answered it. Thank you for that.
To demonstrate understanding, it's the same thing as what's happened to many good people in Florida. They're not stupid. They knew what was going to happen. But, there was no way out of the situation, no practical alternative choices but to assume the risk.
Thanks again.
not really, the federal government can provide funds to rebuild. whether they should provide funds for oversized multi-millionaire homes in Malibu is another question, but they aren't the only ones affected. the obvious is to rebuild more densely packed areas and multi-family buildings. and the rebuilt homes can be made more fire/earthquake resistant.
i don't think Phoenix should be rebuilt if it burns down though or shit like this.
The Feds could help poor and middle class people. But, while I don't know much about California wildfires, I know that helping poor and middle class people is rarely the most profitable choice. Only pretending to help, the marketing, is profitable.
fed doesn't need money profits (eg. troubled asset relief program or paycheck protection program), that it doesn't help regular people is a political choice, U.S. is ran by the oligarchs and all.
I've little tolerance for such minimization and deflection of the consequences of unmitigated capitalism.
i didn't minimize anything at all. unmitigated capitalism? you mean regular peoples' homes burning down? sure, destroy capitalism but that doesn't mean 'natural' disasters stop all of a sudden.
Y'all remember that user linking endless www.yourlogicalfallacyis.com links to everyone? This was a warm reminder of some dedicated debate perverting
good luck
Homes are the only major asset most Americans have.
Even the assumption that you have to have insurance to not be financially ruined is ridiculous.
Insurers will try any possible means to deny insurance claims.
climate change makes insurance unprofitable for the corps. The only possible (long term) provider of funding in such a case is the Federal Government.
Yeah, insurance corps will be the first one to cut losses and go, "nah you don't have insurance anymore. Good luck!"
It's more, their own immediate revenue streams, that the insurers are prioritizing. Why they are legally allowed to do this, however, is certainly a quandary though.