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Reality vs Fantasy (lemmy.world)
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[-] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 8 points 4 weeks ago

We expect our management to know when to use 'an' instead of 'a'.

[-] hakase@lemmy.zip 0 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

So much badlinguistics in this subthread.

Edit: Instead of responding to individual comments, I'll just put what's going on with "a" and "an" here:

This alternation is a morphophonological process (specifically a sandhi alternation), whereby in native, fluent speech for most dialects of English, "a" is unconsciously placed before words beginning with a consonant, and "an" is unconsciously placed before words beginning with a vowel.

In contrast to what many people in this subthread seem to think, this is NOT to "ease pronunciation". This is easily demonstrable since "a" and "the" have the same vowel sound in fluent speech (for most dialects of English), but while we get "a cat" but "an apple", we don't get "the cat", but "then apple". This alternation, therefore, is not a regular part of English speakers' phonology (that is, part of the regular, unconscious processes that occur between sounds in all environments), but rather an idiosyncratic part of English's morphophonology, in that it's a phonological process that only happens in the presence of certain morphemes (simple words or word-pieces).

Why is this the case? Because "an" was originally just the word "one" that became reduced over time until it took on its own separate grammatical function, and later there was a regular sound change whereby "n" was deleted in certain specific unstressed environments before consonants, leaving an accidental alternation between "a" and "an" as a result of sound change.

This means that the "a"/"an" alternation in Modern English is not to "ease pronunciation" in any way - like with many phenomena in English (and all languages for that matter), it's just a vestigial remnant of an accidental historical process.

We know this is the case because the exact same thing happened to "mine", and in earlier dialects of English there was a similar alternation, "my cat", but "mine uncle". This alternation later collapsed in most dialects into our modern my/mine distinction, adding further evidence to the conclusion that this is not a phonological alternation, but a morphophonological one.

What all of this means, is that for a native English speaker that still has an "a/an" distinction (I don't have one in my dialect, for example - I put "a" before everything when speaking fluently: "a cat", "a apple"), if they don't put a pause between "a" and "I'm" to signal the quoted speech, they would likely say "an I'm", and if they do put a pause between "a" and "I'm" to signal the quoted speech, they would likely say "a I'm".

Because "a" and "mindset" aren't in a local configuration to each other, they will have no morphophonological influence on each other whatsoever (just like in "an able mindset", for example).

So, while I won't say that saying "it's 'a' because of 'mindset'" is wrong (because right/wrong aren't really useful terms when describing language), I will say that it does not conform to the linguistic behavior of native English speakers when speaking fluently.

Feel free to respond to this comment with any follow-up questions you have, and I'll be happy to answer them.

[-] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 weeks ago

I'm not disagreeing with your larger point but I don't necessarily buy the part of your explanation saying

This is easily demonstrable since “a” and “the” have the same vowel sound in fluent speech (for most dialects of English), but while we get “a cat” but “an apple”, we don’t get “the cat”, but “then apple”

because in most dialects (at least of American English) "the" before a consonant uses ə while before a vowel sound it's ē.

[-] Bubs@lemmy.zip 0 points 4 weeks ago

Would it be "an"? Does the a/an rule apply to whatever the next word is or does it apply to the word it is targeting? "An mindset" would be incorrect.

[-] CatZoomies@lemmy.world 7 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

In American English, the article “an” is used for a vowel sound to separate the words so they don’t blend together when speaking.

Normally, “a” always precedes a consonant, while “an” precedes a vowel. But “an” also precedes vowel sounds - i.e., the sound of the letter of the beginning of a word.

  • An apple
  • A banana
  • An hour

Hour starts with a consonant, but is pronounced with a vowel sound at the beginning. Thus, it is not “a hour” and rather “an hour”.

In the case of the example from the meme, id argue that either article works:

  • A “I’m…” - Typically when speaking, a person has a brief pause before they begin the quote. Since that pause would be enough to distinctly indicate two separate words, this sounds fine when being verbally spoken.
  • An “I’m…” - Looks great in text and would be the correct way to list it grammatically. However when speaking this aloud, since the person would have a brief pause when saying “an” and then the quote, it probably wouldn’t sound as great to some others.

My take - I like “an ‘I’m…’” best. Both in text and verbal form. Others may disagree as far as verbally said; however, grammatically in written form this is how it should be.

Edit: Fixed the inevitable autocorrects from typing this on mobile.

[-] evening_push579@feddit.nu 0 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

~~English being my second language, from why I’ve learnt, “a […] mindset” is correct.~~

Edit: I stand corrected

[-] philthi@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago

Native English speaker here. This is incorrect, the "n" is added for phonetic help "a elephant" involves an awkward break between the two words, so enter "n" to help mouth muscles work around that.

This is the same reason for weird artifacts like: "a unicorn" because unicorn starts with. "Yoo" sound and so mouths don't need the help of the "n" to break up the awkwardness.

[-] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

The rule I've always used is that if the first letter of the word immediately following it is a vowel, it's "an" and if it isn't use "a".

For example, "an apple" or "a potato". If there is an adjective, go by that first letter, for example "a large apple" or "an average potato".

[-] TheGenuineGT@lemmy.world 3 points 4 weeks ago

For anyone scrolling, I've followed a similar rule. Except an is used anytime the following word makes a phonetic vowel sound. E.g ah, eh, ee, oh, ooh

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago

Tell that to British midlanders: "Can I have a glass of wo'a?"

[-] DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 3 weeks ago

Or when they ask for a nonion.

[-] jaennaet@sopuli.xyz 1 points 3 weeks ago

Fun English facts: "apron" used to be "napron", but "a napron" was eventually incorrectly split into "an apron". Same with "adder" which used to be "naddre", and "umpire" which was "noumpere"

this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2025
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