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Abortion Rights: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver
(www.youtube.com)
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this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2023
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I'm for small government and personal rights. So I'm pro choice, because I don't think big government should be forcing their people to do things they don't want.
Im also for small government and personal rights. But I firmly believe murder should be a crime.
Good thing abortion isn't murder.
Yes it is.
Try to use your brain like a grown person and not have strong opinions on things that you clearly know very little about. Anyone that knows what abortion really is, when and why it's done doesn't think it's murder. You also completely ignore the life quality of the children that are forced to be born with physical and/or mental problems, parents that can't afford to give them even the basics, the mental and physical strain that can kill both child and mother etc.
You are a deeply shitty and stupid person and you would do everyone a favor by learning even the basics of things you have opinions about, or shutting the hell up.
Have you seen a video of a late term abortion? They literally pull out arms and legs piece by piece. You can cope internally all you want but you are ending a human life when you abort a child. There isn't something that magically makes them become human when the leave the womb.
This whole shpiel is completely detached from whether aborting a baby is murder or not. You are rambling while telling people to "learn the basics of things" despite you not really understanding them yourself.
Late term abortion is not a great argument. At some point it is too far along and then most would agree with your point. But to use that point to justify getting rid of all abortion, no matter how far along, is just a weak strawman argument.
At what point does it become a human? So would you be okay with banning abortion after the point where you consider it "life"? It seems you recognize that the fetus inside the woman is a human at some point, whereas many people argue it's not a human until its born.
Viability. If we can safely take care of it outside of the mother then we should do it. That's bare minimum 20.5 weeks, but realistically probably 23 or 24 weeks. I would like to see discussions about that range from medical professionals and lawmakers in charge of the budget since that early can be very expensive.
So would you be okay outlawing abortions past the point of it being viable outside the womb? (assuming there is no threat to the mothers life)
Yes. I would also hope to expand adoption/ward of the state options, particularly for this age. Maybe they could basically write that if the mother is giving up the baby at (let's just say 24 weeks), the state pays for the procedure to remove the child and care for them until they are able to be released home. That is a big expense but I think they do this a lot anyway.
But in this case, you would also want to line up an adoption. With many weeks of hospital care starting at 24 weeks, I feel like that would not be terribly difficult. I hope not. A lot of couples want kids but cannot have them. The new parents could take part in visiting the new baby at the hospital until it's time to bring them home.
When it's born.
So a person only magically becomes a human when they get born? What about the birth process makes them any more or less human?
Yes. It's a distinction we draw based on nature and it's vitally important to have that distinction. Comparing fetuses to people who are disabled; etc. are false equivalencies because they've already been born and thus already have those rights. Birth is the quintessential start of life.
But we both know you're never going to accept that because you want to subjugate women and deny them happiness, and that's all this is really about.
This is an almost religious claim with no empirical evidence backing it.
You have really been sold a narrative haven't you. I just think killing babies because you don't want them is bad. That's pretty much the extent of it.
The consent of the woman to allow the use of her body is the only thing that matters.
That's not what murder is, and you know it.
Stop it with this weak rhetoric.
Why is it not murder? You are killing a living human
No they're not
why not
Can you think of reasons to kill another human that is not murder?
Of course. But in almost all instances the person being killed did something to deserve it. A child in the womb did nothing to deserve it.
Completely irrelevant. Their very existence, location, and demand for resources makes them a threat. Women historically die from pregnancy more than any other factors.
There's no such thing as a child in the womb. A child, by definition, has been born.
What definition are you going by? Definition is: "a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority." none of that excludes those who are yet to be born.
Me too but we are talking about abortion here
Abortion is murder.
YOU are a murderer.
My sister was bleeding to death from an incomplete miscarriage of a very much wanted pregnancy in Ohio ten years ago. You know how they fix that problem? The exact same medical procedure that is used for elective abortion.
You would have preferred that my sister bleed to death or die of sepsis for no reason. You are trying to murder my sister.
In case you think that doesn't really happen:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar
"On 21 October 2012, Halappanavar, then 17 weeks pregnant, was examined at University Hospital Galway after complaining of back pain, but was soon discharged without a diagnosis. She returned to the hospital later that day, this time complaining of lower pressure, a sensation she described as feeling "something coming down", and a subsequent examination found that the gestational sac was protruding from her body. She was admitted to hospital, as it was determined that miscarriage was unavoidable, and several hours later, just after midnight on 22 October, her water broke but did not expel the fetus.[8]: 22–26 [8]: 29 [9] The following day, on 23 October, Halappanavar discussed abortion with her consulting physician but her request was promptly refused, as Irish law at that time forbade abortion if a fetal heartbeat was still present.[8]: 33 [10] Afterwards, Halappanavar developed sepsis and, despite doctors' efforts to treat her, had a cardiac arrest at 1:09 AM on 28 October, and died, aged 31"
I'm ok with abortion if there is a complication that can kill the mother. I still don't think killing babies because you don't want them is moral.
How graceful for you to let women make their own medical decisions as long as you think they have sufficient reason.
I think men should have their balls tied off with rubber bands unless I think their health is in danger; that way they can't create babies to "murder."
Better get that application in now, there's a hell of a backlog.
It's not a "womans medical decision" when they are killing another human being.
Just like it's not a man's medical decision to have sex.
It's why I'm taking the option off the table. Just follow the process and you'll be fine. You can't even feel it after a few days, from what I've read.
damn bro you got the whole squad laughing 😐
Not joking.
Sometimes you've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette (so to speak).
😐
Yup, I expect a whole lot of that face in the future.
😐
No person has the right to use another person's body without their consent. Abortion is always self defense.
Yeah lets defend against babies! Kill them! Rip them limb from limb!!
Pregnancy is always a life threatening condition. Ending it is always self defense.
Is it more moral to force a child into a life where they cant afford basic necessities, where the people who are supposed to watch over them dont want them, dont love them? Is that moral?
And don't you dare bring up adoption. With abortion legal 20,000 kids age out of foster care every year. that number is undoubtedly going to increase.
I don't think you should be able to murder someone because you predict they will live a hard life. We don't kill the mentally disabled for the same reason.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
"small government" meaning "I decide what is murder, your opinions and beliefs don't matter, and I'm not willing to hear your arguments against it".
Fuck off guy. You aren't changing anyone's minds on Lemmy.
We better arrest every woman who has a miscarriage under suspicion of murder.
Abortion is self defense, never murder.