this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
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In Finland we steal dynamite from construction sites and do some sudden nightly dismantling. No crackheads needed.
It does amaze me how many people I've met who have a vicious hatred towards speed cameras. Especially interesting e: in a country where people have so much respect for the police.
We don't like the idea a private company is enforcing laws not for safety but for profit. Especially when things like shortening of yellow light time and cameras that don't properly report speed. It's horseshit.
A private company?
Yeah. Even in the US many municipalities outsource almost the entire ticketing process to the company selling the cameras, and the company collects a (usually outsized) percentage of the fees. So the company has the incentive to use whatever shady tactics to increase ticketing infraction events. This could be by changing the camera angle slightly to falsely get plates from yellow throughers or sometimes they change light timing itself to increase ticketing events..
I was talking about Finns in Finland complaining about speed cameras.
I would just assumed because they are using the same Swedish company (Sensys Gatso) that does profit sharing agreements with municipalities in the US, that the agreement is the same.
I can't seem to find the finnish contract award details, so I can't confirm that they are. I am thinking now, that their might be a chance that they aren't, given how extreme finnish traffic violation costs can be (% of salary).
If you're going to issue fines for speeding, this is the most just way to do it though.
We'll never do that in the US because we hate the poor.
The minimum cost of a speeding ticket in Finland is €125 which is closer to an average American speeding ticket, not the minimum.
So what's the point? How does this not make it more equitable to adjust it by income from there? That's still extremely more equitable than our wildly unjust system that's only designed to punish the poor.
Edit: Also, that's totally wrong. If I convert euros to USD, then that's ~$135, which is way less than an average speeding ticket in the US. Last one I had was more than $200, and that was in 2010. You're wrong.
Weirdly confrontational?
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/cost-of-car-ownership/cost-of-speeding-ticket.htm
Average ticket is 150 in America, which is pretty close to 135.
So a speeding ticket in Finland likely wouldn't benefit poor people, but it would hurt rich people more.
I'm in the lower income bracket, and I haven't had one that low since the 90s. That figure must be skewed by places like Nowhereville where the police are so corrupt that they issue $10 tickets to family members or something, because $150 is not a realistic figure for most people. I bet if we looked into that, we'd find some really creative methodology.
$150? Ain't no way...
Or you are admittedly a repeat offender, which would likely also increase your fines in Finland.
Heres NY, which I can imagine we agree isnt Nowhereville.
https://trafficsafety.ny.gov/penalties-speeding
Minimum fine for up to 10mph over is 45$. 90$ for 10-30mph over. 30+mph over is a minimum of 180$
How much are you (plural) even speeding to have such expensive tickets?
Or do you get a $150+ ticket for driving 70 in a 60 zone?
It's only % of salary (day fines) for more severe offenses, in this case for really speeding. Normal speeding tickets are just a set sum.
Here's a pic showing the amounts. It has the speed limit, how much over the limit you were and how much you end up paying as a fine. Bottom one is "regardless of the limit" and "over 20 km/h", so whenever you go over by over 20 km/h, you pay "day fines".
I agree it would be more just if it were all based on income, but even this:
...is far more just than here in the US where income is never considered.
So my statement is still accurate. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Perhaps you can explain?
Friend, I'm just trying to be helpful and note that it's not all speeding tickets.
What's up with people online thinking everything is an argument lol
The real problem is that people want to argue technicalities that deflect from the main point. For people who aren't paying attention, they might come across this and think, "Oh, well I guess the US system isn't so unjust after all."
The Finnish system is probably inequitable, too! But it's objectively not as inequitable as the US system, at least not where traffic fines are concerned. There's nuance.
I was just noting that it's not all (or most) traffic fines, since it's a common misconception. That is all.
It seems like a fairly risky assumption to make just from you having it work like that in the US.
As a side note, that % thing (day fines) don't cover all speeding tickets, since they're considered so minor. It's the bigger offenses (of speed limits and in general) that are covered. So it actually covers other stuff too, not just speeding.
Here's a pic showing the amounts. It has the speed limit, how much over the limit you were and how much you end up paying as a fine. Bottom one is "regardless of the limit" and "over 20 km/h", so whenever you go over by over 20 km/h, you pay "day fines".
It's not the local government putting them up, it's a private company who is in charge and keeps at least half the revenue. Plus when their location is known and they get less effective the same company will try other things like altering yellow light time length to keep profits up.
Do you have a link explaining this? I searched for "poliisi valvontakamera" and "poliisi nopeuskamera asennus" and didn't find stuff about who puts them up and whatnot or about the income sharing. I have read articles about how they're a nice source of income for the state but no mention of the companies involved.
They’re talking about in the US.
It seems everyone who replied to me was talking about the US haha, while I was talking about Finland
In the USA, many or most speed cameras are owned and operated not by the local police or city, but by a private company that keeps some percent of the fines they give out.
They are contracted by the city, country, or other authority. They are not randomly placed or operated without permission.
I was talking about Finns in Finland complaining about speed cameras.
Capitalism caused a problem?
I don't think we have that problem in Finland and we are a capitalist country.
You can at least pretend you are.
What do you mean?
Us Nords are socialist enough to keep a tight leash on capitalism. Less and less of course, but capitalism doesn't define us, the way it defines basically the rest of the world.
But we are all capitalist countries still, that's what I mean.
Capitalism wreaks a different amount of havoc on societies depending on any number of variables, mostly those which have to do with controlling capitalism.
Yes that's what I was saying
I don't think you were. But I can't be bothered going back to check because I'm too drunk right now.
Maybe read the whole chain while you're sober
Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe go fuck yourself.
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Wait we have respect for the police in Finland?
Are you genuinely asking? Because we absolutely have respect for the police, it's literally the most highly respected job.
https://www.is.fi/suomi100/art-2000005208545.html
Oh wow, that's quite a surprise to me. Doesn't really reflect to what I learned growing up and in adulthood
Dey took 'r jobs
What about vodka, is that needed?
Not always needed but always appreciated.