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Maybe this is better for everyone
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2024
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No one hates vegans. Almost everyone hates vegan extremists.
No one hates vegans, but everyone loves to post vegan hate or idiotic "bacon" posts.
Of all the delicious meats to be obsessed about, redditbros went and picked one of the least appealing ones and decided to make it their entire personality 💀
For real. I've been vegetarian for a few years now and of all the things I kind of miss, not once has bacon been even a slight craving. A good kebab on the other hand...
The vast majority of people love bacon and bacon memes and jokes are part of the mainstream culture. Do you accommodate non-vegans? Why do you expect them to accommodate you?
That's because they don't consider non-veganism a morally acceptable option.
As a thought experiment, pick any action that you would personally find morally repugnant and ask yourself if you should accommodate people who do that action.
Precisely. They make the same mistake that all extremists make. They believe that they are morally superior which justifies anything they say or do to anyone they see as inferior. The problem is that the rest of the world does not agree with them so they are reviled for their antisocial behaviour then constantly whine about how the people they harangue treat them badly.
Just because the rest of the world doesn't agree with them doesn't mean they're wrong, though. Societal norms progress with splinter groups that are willing to put their convictions above group conformity. The process is always unpleasant.
Yup, that's exactly the mistake that extremists make. There is a great quote from a judgement out of a court in the UK. Let me find it...
“But the plain fact is that each of you has some time ago crossed the line from concerned campaigner to fanatic. You have appointed yourselves as the sole arbiters of what should be done about climate change, bound neither by the principles of democracy nor the rule of law.
“And your fanaticism makes you entirely heedless of the rights of your fellow citizens. You have taken it upon yourselves to decide that your fellow citizens must suffer disruption and harm, and how much disruption and harm they must suffer, simply so that you may parade your views.”
This really sums it up. Sometimes fanatics are right. Often, they are wrong. Their ability to self-absolve their abhorent antisocial behavior is why so many people so violently hate them and it's the reason that many vegans feel like they are being painted with the same brush. They've appointed themselves holy crusaders who will bully, harass, and intimidate anyone who doesn't agree with them.
Yet without the radicals that are willing to rock the boat, our society would be morally stagnant and unable to progress. We're literally having the conservative/progressive debate.
I assume the case you're referring to is the recent Just Stop Oil case? I personally see the judge's decision as incredibly short sighted. He's put short term convenience above averting global catastrophe for all life on earth. In my view, it is he who has caused his fellow citizens harm, and on a much wider scale.
Self-absolution. I understand it but it is a logical failure.
Should anti-LGBTQ fanatics who are absolutely convinced that they are morally superior be able to discriminate against LQBTQ people?
Should anti-abotionists who are absolutely convinced that they are morally superior be able to harass and threaten women making the most difficult decision of their life? Should they be allowed to fire bomb clinics? Shoot abortion doctors and nurses?
Should white spremacists who are absolutely convinced of their racial superiority be allowed to refuse service to people of color? Burn crosses on lawns? Hang people of color from trees by the neck?
Where does the vegan fanatics self-absolution end? Fire bombing restaurant? Pipe bombs wrapped in nails in crowded restaurants that serve meat?
The ability to self-absolve is very VERY dangerous. It permits fanatics to justify any ammoral horror in the name of their mistaken moral purity.
Except you can say this literal exact thing about the opposites too
Should black people have just stayed slaves and not have rights even though "they are absolutely convinced they should have"? Should us queer people never fight back and fight for acceptance? Etc etc.
The actual difference is the arguments for the specific position. What sound arguments are there for racism and slavery? What sound arguments are there for queer-phobia? What sound arguments are there for not following a vegan diet beyond "it tastes good"?
Usually it ends at the terrifying act of talking with people, because harming them would be explicitly against their own philosophy.
But yeah, it's totally like a jihad or something.
That's self-serving nonsense. Vegan extremists have been harassing and intimidating restaurateurs and their patrons attempting to drive them out of business or to comply with their demands to stop serving meat. That is not, "the terrifying act of talking".
What if you're mistaken about being morally superior? What if your actions toward other humans demonstrate a complete lack of any morality?
Profiting off the suffering of others isn't acceptable behavior. Establishments that do so should be boycotted where possible and practicable. I think protest is a justified response.
Given two scenarios where I'm potentially wrong, the one where I'm mistaken and vegan is the one with a substantially more ethical outcome than the one where I'm mistaken and not vegan.
Abuse. Torture. Murder.
Vegan extremists throw those words around like they are universal facts of animal farming. They are in large concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs) which is what the things that you might refer to as, "factory farms" are actually called. Small family farms, homesteads, and crofts treat their animals far better than CAFOs do. Animals aren't abused or tortured on most family farms. When you use ridiculous inflammatory language like that most people stop listening to anything else you have to say.
The issue isn't you being vegan. Take the back of your hand off your forehead and calm down. I don't care what you eat. If you want to eat vegan eat vegan. The problem is that the extremists start throwing around words like carnist, corpse muncher, blood mouth, cadaver, murder, etc. and no one takes them seriously anymore. I do the same thing when the extreme right uses the word, "woke" or the trans extremists use the word, "terf". It immediately causes me to stop caring about anything else they have to say.
I didn't realize I wasn't being calm. Maybe I'll have to get my b12 levels checked. Nice talking with ya.
Vegans have no obligation to serve you flesh or secretions.
Have your considered simply minding your own business? No one wants you to serve them anything. The simply want you to keep your false sense of moral superiority and sanctimonious comments to yourself. It's really quite simple.
I’m not going to mind my own business when people are misrepresenting my community and spreading slander about it.
What exactly do you think I'm misrepresenting? Have you heard of the Antler Kitchen and Bar in Toronto and the months of threats, harassment, and abuse that was hurled at the owner and patrons in attempt to bully them into not eating meat?
I wish that was true (and I'm not even vegan) but there are many outspoken anti-vegans. But then again they're the types who will always find an out group to denigrate (in before someone oh-so-cleverly points out I'm doing the same to them).
I think that you will find that these anti-vegans are reacting to the behaviour of the extremist.
I don't disagree, but then they'll apply their hatred to the whole (or at least majority) of the group
That, unfortunately, is how it goes. If the only vegans that most people deal with are the obnoxious assholes then they assume that every vegan is an obnoxious asshole.
Nah, as a vegan most people act pretty hateful towards us even when we don’t bring up the topic.
Most people only ever hear anything from the extremists so you get painted with the same brush. I have friends who are vegans who are amazing people. I go out of my way to accommodate them. You are getting hate because of a very small group of fanatics who believe that they are absolutely morally superior and that that absolute moral superiority justified doing and saying anything to anyone who doesn't agree with them in an attempt to shame, harass, and intimidate them into doing what they are told.