It is darkly funny, on multiple levels, that thus far the best impediment to the Mechanazis is their own dumb fucking incompetence.
They certainly are not being thwarted by an “opposition” that is cowardly and craven, if not outright complicit.
The absolute cowardice of the Democrat party is supremely laughably sad. The US is no longer controlled by a government. Just rich people. Maybe it always has been.
Hmmm.
Funny. Almost like he didn't kill himself.
That makes a bit more sense. one minute was not quite enough to get in, string up a noose, put him in the noose, and get out; never mind the presumed struggle and/or drugging or whatever.
I haven't really looked much into the layout or video (I tend to not like staring at corpses OR rapists), but assuming it is of the cell itself or the door right outside?
A minute is more than enough time for a couple of blokes to get in, grab someone, put them in a blood choke, loop the noose, throw it, and tie a super quick knot. Hollywood likes people to think you can struggle against getting choked. An air choke where your oxygen supply is cut off? Sure, those can take a minute or two to kill someone. A blood choke where you put pressure on the artery? They are unconscious in less than 10 seconds (sometimes almost instantaneously) and they aren't going to wake up the moment you release. Similarly, ask any climber to tie a quick figure eight (or bowline if they are old or european) and they can do that blindfolded, in the rain, in like 10 seconds.
So assuming even two killers? Yeah, a minute is more than enough time.
That isn't to say that multiple minutes is not more likely. But the article has many caveats for why that isn't necessarily the case (overlap, basically) and there is already a massive push by fascists to somehow spin all of this as being Obama's fault. So be wary of easy gotchas that they can introduce and disprove.
The camera view is not of the cell or even outside of it. It’s pointed at nearby cells and the FBI claims someone would have to walk past it to reach Epstein’s cell.
They are unconscious in less than 10 seconds (sometimes almost instantaneously) and they aren’t going to wake up the moment you release. Similarly, ask any climber to tie a quick figure eight (or bowline if they are old or european) and they can do that blindfolded, in the rain, in like 10 seconds.
So assuming even two killers? Yeah, a minute is more than enough time.
You, eh, ever try to lift 150-200 pounds of dead weight? while trying to make it look like that dead weight did it himself?
it's not just the fight. It's not just the struggle. just for the record the camera was in the hallway outside and not in the room. a minute is barely enough time to get in, kill him, and get out.
To also then string him up, and remove whatever you need to, to make it look like suicide? three minutes is pushing it, even with 2 guys- and remember, the more guys you add the more potential you have for some one talking.
You, eh, ever try to lift 150-200 pounds of dead weight? while trying to make it look like that dead weight did it himself?
One murderer puts their arms under his armpits. The other loops the noose and then ties it off.
Could Abby Sciuto and Ducky figure out it was faked? Sure. But they aren't getting called in to investigate a hit that was organized by the people who would be investigating the murder.
To also then string him up, and remove whatever you need to, to make it look like suicide?
Open the door. One guy rushes him and does a blood choke. He was old and nowhere near at his best. The other quickly throws the noose up and ties it off. They don't have to remove anything but themselves.
Again. I think more time is more likely. But be very cautious of "They needed way more than one minute!" because, again, even the wired article suggests it may just be overlapping clips and it would be super easy to say "Actually that analyst is wrong and it is really only one minute of lost footage so all of you conspiracy theorists are wrong and owe donald j trump an apology"
As an example, think OJ Simpson. So much of the case became fixated on that glove. So once it was "proved" that he couldn't wear it (because his hands were swollen and had thick latex gloves on them...) the entire case fell apart.
This will basically never reach trial for obvious reasons. But the principle still holds. Don't overly fixate on specific details that can be trivially refuted unless they are key details. And it is very possible, if not overly plausible, that they could have suicide'd epstein in under a minute.
there's actually a lot of things I don't get with the video, so yeah, I'm not really taking anything off the table or fixating. But there being more time removed/spliced just makes more sense.
But it almost certainly wasn't a multiplexing VCR. For one thing, the video looks like a bog standard export from a DVR-based networked system. (Which uses client software to access a server to play back video records. VHS tapes got dumped back in the very-early 2k's because everyone saw the writing on the wall. They only last a few months in a record-rewind loop- four at most, and only if you buy the really expensive kind.
Further the black shadowbox around it is from the way they exported it off a modern dvr- the client they used to export it from added it. (probably also added their own shitty player to the file. the player is basically windows media player but even more useless.)
which... really just makes this whole thing shockingly incompetent. But then, that's the problem with conspiracies. It's the details that bite you in the ass.
Yeah. In order for the whole thing to work you're putting a lot of faith in your ability to get out of there before the DVR files roll over at midnight. It's not just that you'd have to do it in a minute, you'd have to be confident ahead of time of being able to do it and leaving no signs of struggle and also avoid any other cameras placing you unaccountably at that location at that time... all in all if you want the guy dead it's much easier to manipulate another inmate into doing it for you, than to do all this Mission: Impossible shit and still need to hope that the next two governments help you cover it up.
so, speaking as someone whose used these systems for decades, DVR files don't work that way.
The old, old school multiplexing VCRs did, sure. Those were recording to VHS's, and basically everyone swapped over by the early 2k's. What's hilarious is the reason. VHS tapes are expensive and wear out inside a few months- they've usually only got about six hours of recording, after which the rewind and overwrite. The high-end tapes purpose built for that might last four or five. back then, depending on how much data you had going, DVRs basically paid for themselves inside of a couple years (and the disks were expected to last a decade or so.)
In any case, modern DVRs have no gaps. They continuously record in a rolling loop- typically 7, 15, 30, or 90 days. The DVR is actually a server running on a network, and the server manages the data stream coming in, and maybe streaming to a client wherever the security office or whatever is. (or clients, even. It's all just software on the user end.)
there might be a system with digital storage tapes, and not hard disks, but that's really just a question of what digital media the data is stored on, and was relatively short lived. the digital tapes were used for very-large numbers of cameras.
For the record, the fact that we have a single camera that was released and not an array of cameras (or video cropped out looking like a blown up thumbnail,) is because it was a modern system.
I hope you'll forgive me being sceptical that "used these systems" is enough authority to be able to speak for every make and model on the market... I've also used a few CCTV systems over the years and they've all been absolute lowest-bidder no-name dogshit that were packed full of weird idiosyncrasies.
Again it comes back to the "how many people would you need to cover this up" thing - if the security systems in this prison genuinely did not cut their files at midnight, the number of people that would have to keep quiet about it is staggering; you'd need to not only swear all the guards to secrecy but also the people who made and sold them the system (whose reputation is being impugned, to boot) and anyone else familiar with that system, any one of whom could show up any time with the same model and say look, here's hard physical evidence that what they said about the midnight rollover isn't true.
That said, they really need to release the Epstein Files.
(edit: yeah yeah I knew this would get downvoted for not joining the bandwagon even as I was writing it... go whistle)
I hope you’ll forgive me being sceptical that “used these systems” is enough authority to be able to speak for every make and model on the market… I’ve also used a few CCTV systems over the years and they’ve all been absolute lowest-bidder no-name dogshit that were packed full of weird idiosyncrasies.
I encourage skepticism! yes, the software were developed by the lowest bidder and every single one of them all had weird shit slapped in that got in the way of core functionality. I suspect part of that weird shit was that they were trying to keep people from accessing the files without their software. (As if the DVR didn't save it as h.264 or whatever.)
I've been in contract security for over a decade now- and my first post way back ages ago was "slow" to get rid of theirs in 06. (they had ordered their VHS's in bulk so they wanted to go through them first. I think they cracked open the last pack around the time I was hired.)
I've used more systems than I care to count or name; and usually became "the guy" that knew how to actually get it to do "the thing". The worst part of that is most of the people selling the software clients would go tits up in a few years, which gets sold to another dev what doesn't bother to learn the lessons from last time anyways. They just wanted one thing from the code or they had an idiot project manager that thought starting from failed code would be a good way to go.
In any case, because of how the multiplexing VCRs worked, the video playback was always choppy. they'd record using NTSC or PAl at 30 or 25 fps; just like any standard VCR, except that each camera would record each frame in sequence. a 4-chanel (four cameras) would reduce the NTSC's 30 FPS to 7. which looks like this. a 16 channel system would go down to 2 fps. Given the nature of the facility, I would assume they're using 16x systems.
Damn dude, these are legendary "this guy knows his shit" comments.
If it was a bit under three consecutive minutes, it would be tough. If they had two removed periods of nearly 1:30 that is more than enough time for like 20 people to move without seeing it on camera. And when the cell is closed I assume we cant see anything inside the cell? Since it was supposed to have its own camera on the inside anyways
Most indoor cameras cover narrow enough spaces that a person could enter or exit it in like 1 second walking at an average pace
Even so, it was dubbed as "raw".
For a guy that doesn't like staring at corpses, you seem versed in how to make them?
I love how everyone in your replies is all of a sudden an expert on hitmen and their parameters.
Yes, a few minutes alone in a room with someone is long enough to kill them and make it look like something else. I'm as qualified as anyone else here (I've even seen a YouTube interview with an ex-professional hit man, so probably more so), so I can just say that and it becomes so.
Similarly, ask any climber to tie a quick figure eight (or bowline if they are old or european)
Yes, we all know the bowline. But I'm both old and European so I know them all, from the square knot with double slip releases (aka. tying your shoelace) to the mighty monkey's fist!
I mean, it depends on how many people you have available. Five or six strong dudes could easily overpower him in like 10 seconds. Have another dude ready with a pre-tied noose, so all he has to do is throw it over a bar and pull it tight. Once Epstein is being bearhugged by like three dudes, getting him into the noose would be trivial.
A minute would be tight, but if you keep cameras in mind and bum-rush him with a practiced team, it could be doable.
More people involved the harder to keep secret though
Right because it's such a big secret now...
Unfortunately millions of people stating the obvious online does not have the same sway in a court like a single witness that can testify in detail.
Nah, super easy.
Each of you gets a million dollars, anyone talks about what happened tonight.. well, let's just say that you now know first hand I'm well connected, and I have the means to dispose of anyone, anywhere, anytime.
Sounds like a challenge!
Frankly, whatever insanity it takes to peel MAGA away from Trump is fine by me at this point.
TIL it takes 3 minutes to murder someone and make it “look like a suicide”
I mean, the last footage wasn't of his door, so you just need a few seconds to slip past the cameras each time
Man. It when from no video exists to missing clips pretty fast
They've always said there was a camera covering the entrance to Epstein's wing.
What they didn't say was that only a sliver of the doorway is visible and there are multiple examples of staff entering and leaving the wing without being detected by the camera.
Yeah, I think if this is truly the only video they have considered vaguely close to "having a video", it was a fair description to say "we don't have video".
Alright, for arguments sake, let's give them the benefit of the doubt here. Let's assume that there was no one that entered or exited his room that night, that he killed himself alone in the room, that they released the tape in a good faith effort to show the truth to the world, and that, due to corruption or whatever unavoidable issue, those minutes were lost through no nefarious means and those missing minutes would have been as clean as the rest of the tape.... They're still morons for releasing it! How the fuck did they think that missing time would be interpreted!? They stoke conspiracy on the daily like it is their job with WAY less blatantly suspicious circumstances than this. Even if they weren't a bunch of evil fascists that are definitely trying to hide something, but just otherwise normal morons, they deserve the fallout of this for being that stupid.
Lying and being wildly incompetent are like hallmarks of the Trump regime.
Simple explanation. When all the guards simultaneously fell asleep, one of them accidentally cut the power to the security system.
You can’t expect the Justice Department to provide footage that was never recorded in a freak accident that is totally not suspicious at all. It’s not like Epstein had mountains of dirt on the wealthiest and most evil people on the planet doing unspeakably horrible things to innocent children.
We should all just accept this ridiculous story as true and let the rich evil people get back to doing… whatever it was they were doing. I’ve already forgotten
Also don't mind that cellmate that got transferred out shortly before Epstein "killed himself". Such an unfortunate series of coincidences
I would guess that most of the time when a prisoner kills themselves it's when they don't have a cellmate. A cellmate is probably likely to stop someone or to call the guards, rather than just watch someone die.
I've not seen the footage but was there any video of him even tying a noose? Like I'm sure creating and tying up some sort of rudimentary noose to hang yourself must take at least 30 seconds depending on how quickly you're trying to do it.
I haven't watched the video but it sounds like it doesn't actually show Epstein's cell. The camera shows an area someone would need to walk through to get to his cell.
So what is the research trail, to find who edited that video? Then, who asked for it to be edited?
Didn't they find that the video was run at 1.01 speed, making it seem like there was more time missing than was actually missing?
Different issues. The 101% issue is that the released video is shorter than the time elapsed on the timestamps. The difference between timestamp and playback speed adds up over time to 7ish minutes iirc.
This issue is that the video is made from two clips. One cuts out at 11:58:58 and the other immediately cuts in at 12:00:00, showing a 00:01:02 gap in the timestamps. Examination of the file shows details of the source clips, indicating that the first clip continued for multiple minutes after the cut. That would make it overlap with the second clip, which is played in its entirety.
That would be less than a 2 second difference from the 3 minutes that was cut from the video.
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