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So make the same mistake the Union did after the civil war and don't hold traitors accountable. That would just lead us to the mess we're in now, fuck that.
I just saw, probably on Lemmy The Far Right Contagion, offering the explanation that many of the people turning to far-right movements around the world don't necessarily hold far-right beliefs, and often oppose far-right policies. Instead, they feel abandoned by the current system and will align with nearly any movement promising to dismantle it.
If another movement makes them feel heard and offers solutions to their problems, it's very likely to be able to redirect that momentum. Assuming it's a better movement (and it would be hard to do worse), that's a win for humanity. We won't get there by branding everyone who got sucked into a far-right movement as an enemy for life.
That's not to suggest that any person is wrong to be angry at someone who voted to hurt them, but is holding on to that anger more important than a better future?
It depends what we mean by "not turning away". Absolutely on board with telling people they can join, and look at our side and what we have to offer.
Absolutely opposed to "OK so lets extend an olive branch and start hating trans people, cheering on ICE and concentration camps so they feel at home".
Anyone who wants to embrace that all people, are people and deserve respect, dignity and kindness, and that the government is supposed to be trying to help as many as possible... can become an ally and friend.
Absolutely opposed to “OK so lets extend an olive branch and start hating trans people, cheering on ICE and concentration camps so they feel at home”.
I'm quite certain no one meant this when they said "not turning away", lol.
I mean you do hear it left and right among democratic politicians, strategists etc... blaming our losses on going too far in woke, or supporting trans too much. Like say Gavin Newsome who's clearly trying for a 2028 presidential run, and his first step was starting his show, bringing on Charlie Kirk, Steve Bannon etc... and looking for points of agreement, and the first one he chose was that "it's very unfair for trans women to compete in sports".
Exactly this. This should mean something like stopping rhetorical attacks on right wing followers and focusing in on leaders and ideas
And then extend that to "if you've been lied to on X maybe they also tricked you on Y". Don't give up Y to try to bring them in
It's not a nice thing to have to embrace, but it's true. When Vera Papisova spent a year undercover dating right wing men, this was her takeaway, too. That part of the reason they get so radicalized is because rational people have a very hard time wanting to even try to see good things in them and socialize with them at all. Yet that isolation promotes exactly the radicalization we'd like to see less of in our society. Continually saying "no, fuck them" feels right but builds more and more echo chambers where these people are only talking to other highly toxic people in a spiral of enabling terrible thought-patterns.
It's extremely valid to feel like "why would I waste time on these monsters?" because they are indeed monstrous. Yet, we have to have a growth mindset and believe people can change, and not just believe that, but give them opportunities to change. Continuing to isolate them in right wing communities where the only viewpoints they are exposed to continue to radicalize them is not working. When they say "the liberals gave me no choice but to turn to the right" what they actually mean is no liberals or leftists would take the time to talk them down from their own idiocy, so they continued to lean into it out of pure spite, not reason. They like to call people on the left "snowflakes" but these people are so fucking broken and hurt inside and so deeply just want to be accepted that they will chop off their own limbs in an attempt to somehow teach us a lesson, as long as we get hurt, too. Desire for acceptance is literally what drove them into the MAGA Cult. They are broken and hurt because we did not accept them, despite the fact that they are too stupid to see how their own behavior is why they are not accepted.
I know many people here think the solution is to go whole hog and crack down harder on this than we did on the South during reconstruction. Unpopular opinion around here, but I disagree. I think that will create more young conservative people, because what they will see is a wide swath of people being vilified and potentially put to death by the state for their political views. They won't think "gosh those views were so dangerous they must be snuffed out" they will instead erroneously think "they must threaten the broken system that is hurting us to be snuffed out, therefore they must have had some positive ideas." We don't live in a system where people trust the decisions of government or of large groups in general. Putting them all to death (especially without trial) will just radicalize a whole generation of young people who will question why the things those people thought were so "dangerous." That doesn't mean there doesn't need to be consequences for being a part of this, there absolutely has to be, but the penchant for retributive violence on the left is going to harm things more than it will help things, in my personal opinion. It's like the US War on Terrorism. Did killing people indiscriminately win hearts and minds of the Iraqi people or did it radicalize a whole generation against the US? Because I am pretty damn sure it was the latter.
Thank you. Hatred, while understandable here, is not the answer. It'll only push "defectors" to more extreme corners.
If you want more people to join progressive sides, you can't ostracize them further. Show them that hatred doesn't solve anything. Fighting hatred with hatred is pointless.
It's also a distraction. The rich class wants the people to be divided. Being like "no you can never join our side" will do exactly that.
Well said, Humans are social creatures, everyone wants to feel accepted and like they matter in their community. When you aren't getting that, you get extremism.
Like seriously, I despise the right, especially the people using it to influence and gain power knowing they dont believe their own bullshit they're spewing. But we have to extend these people olive branches and try meet them somewhere or they will just go farther into their echo chambers. I've had a hard time putting that into words here on lemmy and its been frustrating bcz the sentiment around here is 'the only good nazi isna dead nazi', and then every MAGA person is lumped in that group (and for the record anybody reading this, I agree with the sentiment). But these MAGA followers aren't the nazis, the leaders are, and the people in government. These are people who have been duped just like the rest of us. And we've all somehow bought it hook line and sink. This isn't just fascism, its class warfare, and the billionaires are winning right now all around the world.
This actually sums up pretty nicely the rant that Anand has in this piece. Your war on terrorism analogy is absolutely perfect in this situation as well.
Cory Doctorow just published a piece MAGA crackup
... Like all successful political campaigns, Trumpism is a coalition. Coalitions form when groups of people set aside their disagreements and join together. Virtually every important political change is downstream of a coalition.
The easiest kind of coalition to form is an oppositional one, where groups agree on what they don't want, without agreeing on what they do want. Think, for example, of the Andrea Dworkin wing of the feminist movement making common cause with Jerry Falwell to oppose pornography. Obviously, these people have a completely irreconcilable goals for what they want, but when it comes to porn, it's easy for them to agree on what they don't want.
That's fine when you're waging the campaign against something, but if you happen to win that campaign, you're in trouble. That's when the fight starts over who will get their way. That's the moment when winning coalitions become bitterly divided
We will explain in great detail why we suppressed the right, because they were legitimatly repugnant. Notice now no one really objects to denaziification or reconstruction on retrospect? Only really that they didn't go far enough. We will show them the kids im.cages, CECOT, etc.
Why do people like this guy always put the onus for reconciliation on the victims? If someone voted against humanity for years, and treated me and mine like garbage, why is it up to me to extend the olive branch?
If these fucking dipshits decide to vote for non-Republicans, that's great, but it has fuck all to do with me. I'm in no way responsible for luring them back to humanity one painful step at a time.
Yeah seriously. I want an apology and a promise.
Gosh your country is a mess. Is it still "plain popcorn" time or should I get the fancier caramel and peanut kind?
So, when a racist, white nationalist becomes upset with his cult leader over his refusal to release the names of the baby brain-juice drinkers in Hollywood and Washington...we should open our arms to them?
Are they "on our team" now, despite still advocating for most of us to be lynched in the town square?
No.
If that cult leader was a factor in him being that racist and white nationalist, and if this is an actual opportunity to pull him away from that, then yes. If isolation from decent people perpetuates the echo chamber I'd rather not let that continue in the name of a grudge.
But if that person tries to hold on to those beliefs they can fuck right off.
Still, people can change and I'll encourage it in the right direction.
I don't believe that Trump is making anyone more racist. They always were. What they like about him, is that he validates those feelings. He says everything they're already thinking, and they relate to that.
Most of those people feel isolated, because those feelings are not acceptable to the rest of us. That's why they gravitate towards others that feel the same way. When it comes to Trump and their cult...they've finally found their people. They feel like they belong, with them.
If they're feeling disillusioned right now, it isn't because they feel any different. They haven't changed. The only thing that might have changed, is they are realizing that Trump is fake as fuck, and has just been using them all along.
That doesn't bring them any closer to "our side". It just gives "us" an opportunity to drive a wedge between them and their cult leader. It weakens their movement...but it doesn't make us allies.
There's plenty of people beyond saving, that's for sure: but I think people aren't so immutable. I think people are being made more monstrous by the capitalist system we live in, and the people at the top who exemplify avarice as a path to success. I'm not going to be buddies with ex maga unless they're really going the extra mile to make up for the damage they've done, but I hope at least some can be decent humans.
Yep and look at this thread, more than half the commenters (heavily upvoted) seem to think that all Trump voters are deeply hateful white supremacist Nazis that are incapable of change when that ain't reality. Sure, you can sneer at them, shout at them, deride them - feel superior because you figured it all out sooner. And that would continue letting Russia's investments dividing America (via online propaganda farms, assisting Trump in the 2016 election, and ongoing payments to right wing figureheads like Tim Poole, Tucker Carlson, Dave Rubin, Lauren Southern) be the best money and time they ever invested.
If you think 'its not my job' well, bad news is you will either convince these people verbally with a compassionate ear and tone, or (best case) keep seeing your best future stripped from you or (worst case) meet them on the battlefield in some civil war 2 or other violent civil clash.
Throw away the black and white thinking shit. Sure, there are lots of hardcore Trump voters that are deeply conservative, love Project 2025, and are just fine with fascism. However, a huge proportion of Trump voters are just 'low-information voters' that have been brought up in conservative households and voted Trump because they didn't think much about it. Many further are dumbasses that knew the US was a mess and wanted political 'change' but were political laymen and were grifted by multiple dozens of RW media figures & orgs (which are just the default shit on tv in many states) into believing Trump will bring his promised change for the better.
If some of them are waking up to the con now then that's a gift horse that you shouldn't look in the mouth. They are perfectly positioned to be pushed farther along with more knowledge - you can show them the left wing rabbit hole while they have a more open mind, or some brainwashed racist can show them a different rabbit hole about "(((globalists)))" that may lead them to a become even worse enemies.
I think the left would benefit more from being open to socialists rather than coddling fascists.
I would be way more sympathetic if these MAGA "defectors" gave a tiny shit about the little girls who got rapped, rather than than being disappointed their side lost this round.
I think the left would benefit more from being open to socialists rather than coddling fascists
For a lot of red states, the exceptions have been FDR and 08 Obama...
Progressive campaigns wins votes. It just also pisses off billionaires so the candidate has to choose between gaining votes directly and money to spend on ads no one even sees anymore.
No it fucking isn't. You really think anybody who voted R in the last election isn't going to vote R in the next one, assuming we even have another election?
Fuck them. We saw what they did.
There's this giant fucking myth of "crossover voters" but what few of them they are, are statistically insignificant.
What can make them significant, is giving them something to cross party lines for.
08 Obama we all thought he was really a progressive and even as a Black man with the middle name Hussien he got traditional Republican voters to vote D and flipped a shit ton of red states.
If trump pisses off maga voters, best case scenario they don't vote for a couple elections.
At this point thinking trump can do anything to make them vote D is willing naivety.
I was listening to a radio show (CBC) who had an expert on voting demographics. He was saying that a fairly sizeable portion of Trump's base were irregular voters. That is to say, they only turn out if they feel strongly enough about something, and the promise they believed was that he would fight corruption.
They also have a core belief that the gov't is run by a cabal of pedophiles, and that Trump would fix that. Backing down on the Epstein files is a huge slap in the face to them.
So while you're absolutely right that these people would probably never cross the aisle and vote democrat, as you say, what they're more likely to do is just not vote.
So are we supposed to just give up and just accept that every election is going to swing to the right now? Assuming they don't rig elections, how are we expected to get people over to the other side if we treat them like garbage even if they realized they fucked up? I don't think it's very wise in this current situation to continue to make enemies when we are all in danger. The fact that people are breaking away should be a good thing and we should encourage it instead of just calling them stupid. If one of your friends joined a cult and managed to get out, would you be pissed at your friend for falling for it or be pissed at the cult that manipulated them? In cults there are always hierarchies and the majority of MAGA are not the people we see in podcasts and on the news. Those are the people in charge and are the ones that convince people to join for their own selfish reason by being loud and portraying themselves as the victims.
Seriously, go look up videos of people that were in cults and tell me that it's their fault. There are people that would rather kill themselves than try and leave the cult because they are so scared. We only see this on a macroscopic scale while we never consider the small scale things going on all over the country. These people have literally been brainwashed and the people on the "outside" would rather call them stupid than give them a chance at fixing things. All that does is reinforce the idea that the cult is better because everyone else hates them.
Edit: I'm not saying we need to forgive them. All I'm saying is treat them like people instead of all of them being monsters.
The electorate didn't shift red. More of their unreliable voters showed up and fewer of our unreliable voters did. That's it. It's not like there was a population wide blue shift in 2020 that Trump then countered by being welcoming to Democrats.
All I’m saying is treat them like people instead of all of them being monsters.
I'm all for treating anyone with decency once they start acting like people, and not monsters. They're not going to get a welcome by clinging to their racism and conspiracies.
Many of them voted D during 2008 and 2012. Why do you think they would never flip back?
Actually yes, there are going to be a very noticable amount of people swinging back to the other side. Most people are dipshits who voted trump because they forgot what he did the first time. They may not vote away from republicans but democrats have a huge window of opportunity to blow away
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… they still don’t support minorities and marginalized communities. Why should they be welcomed with open arms?
Getting then way from the constant propaganda machine is a first step towards what may not be a full 360, but at least potentially realizing that the ones they've been trained to hate are just a scapegoat for those who have really been fucking them (and everyone else) over.
They don’t have empathy unless it specifically happens to them. They didn’t learn a lesson, they’re not capable of learning this kind of lesson.
Carve the swastika onto their foreheads. Once a nazi always a nazi.
There are defecters from the Trump cult, not the Republican party. They still would prefer people like me don't exist and will work against me having civil rights. They still cheer when people who don't look like them get tortured and killed, and will support that however they can.
I'm not going to talk to that kind of person, I just flat out refuse. More power to the people who can tolerate that, but I don't know that the hate party is redeemable.
they were still racist, selfish, stupid, hatemongers.
all that changed is that their pedo leader was a pedo leader
99.9% of MAGAts are not redeemable.
Fuck em. Leave them by the side of the road and don't give them a single moment of your time. They aren't worth it. If roles were reversed they would be spitting on you. Remember that.
The moment their goldfish brains get a little of that Faux News, they'll be back to voting like the hateful shills they are.
Fuck that and fuck them. Let them rot and hang.
I don’t want any fair weather friends.
Their beliefs didn't change, just their views on one politician.
They're dead to me forever, irredeemable and beyond hope. I will absolutely never forgive them or welcome them back no matter how much they "change".
Honestly I don't even see them as people anymore, they're subhuman trash and I wish them all the suffering the universe can give them.
Nah I don't feel like having you traitors on my side, fuck You.
someone else can offer that to disenfranchised MAGA, im just gonna be mean to them
Quick! We need to ELIMINATE Trans and Gay Children so Republicans will Like us!
-Democrats!
Yeah. What I want is a bunch of fair weather fuckwads that will turn coat as soon as it suits their "needs." I don't want another Fetterman. That red hat is a scarlet letter. Let them fucking rot. Cowards all.
They're still perfectly fine with and approve of all the other bullshit coming out of this administration. Just because they're broken clocks about this thing doesn't mean they're redeemed.
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this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2025
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