I really enjoy KOTOR's gameplay actually
I think most of the RPGs mentioned in this thread have actual, good gameplay. Maybe a little clunky and old school, but really good stuff once you get into the weeds.
Morrowind has actual atrocious gameplay.
Wow I agree. Morrowind has amazing worldbuilding and the gfx looked pretty great back in the day but good lord is the actual gameplay ass.
That's KotOR 2 slander. The only sin of that game's gameplay is that it can be too easy.
I adore the faux real time, but actually turn based gameplay it has.
The first Witcher game has an interesting enough story but the gameplay is all over the place
is really funny that they had two tries at the combat in witcher 2 and i find both ways totally unplayable, but the simple worse-designed gameplay of the first one i actually got through
They're currently remaking it, so I'm curious to see if the new gameplay might be more enjoyable
pic unrelated? kotor's gameplay is perfectly fine for a crpg
It uses the 3e (3.5e?) DnD ruleset; I loooooooved kotor 1's ruleset (which Im assuming kotor 2 also used)
If they remade these two games, it would probably be an instant buy for me.
it'd d20 something i don't think it's strictly any published version
it's very rushed, not very stable, soft-locks aren't uncommon, most of the combat is far too easy, once you get force wave/destroy droid, everything stays stunlocked for the rest of the game. until the game forces you to fight with a shit character for a story mission, and then you stack 15 plasma mines in a pile and Darth Sion dies instantly when he steps on it. tons of walking back and forth in pretty bad looking environments, and the power that lets you walk 2x speed applies an awful visual distortion effect, while still feeling too slow. half the power tree does basically nothing or applies a minor buff which lasts literally 12-30 seconds. The side quests are pretty unengaging and mostly just complete themselves if you click all the dialogue NPCs have while doing the main quests. there aren't many puzzles, and those that exist are typically outright asking you to do alegbra, not themed to anything, e.g. "Figure out which operators are in the equation (6_2)_8_9_1=13" which actually manages to be enjoyable compared to the monotony of everything else. have the decency to give me a towers of hanoi puzzle and tell me I'm stabilizing a power core, You know.
agree it was rushes, fuck lucas arts management, but a bunch of those things aren't "gameplay" and stuff like using mines to solve a fight is cool player freedom
and then you stack 15 plasma mines in a pile and Darth Sion dies instantly when he steps on it.
To be fair, this is very much in line with how a dnd party usually defeats the Big Bad in my experience. And since the game's systems are inspired by tabletop games, I think it works ok. I agree with the rest of what you said though.
You know, I totally agree with all the points you said, but I always thought that while these points are annoying/non-engaging for the most part, they also make up most of the distinct late 90s / early 2000s game charme that kotor 1 and 2 had.
That was the peak era in video games, the middle point between creativity, experimentality and tech being just advanced enough to allow large games, but not yet bloated like AAA games in the last decade
you stack 15 plasma mines in a pile and Darth Sion dies
i actually like this bc it's a nice little (likely accidental) example of the gameplay backing up the story (which is a big theme in the game) - when you ask atton how he of all people was a feared jedi-killer he straight up tells you his method was something to the effect of "gas them, drug them, blow them up, shoot their friends and their puppy too, make 'em mad and make 'em make mistakes"
plus it's very in-character in general for him to look at a fair fight and go "um no thank you", doubly so since he's also your han solo type
But crpg gameplay sucks shit, which is why most of the rest of this thread is various crpgs.
TTRPG systems only work because there's a human running them, and most CRPGs use the worst TTRPG system, d20
This thread is a just a list of games where I really enjoy the gameplay and the writing. I guess the gameplay aspect is just a bit more subjective.
most of the thread is just c-rpgs lol
Other games barely have writing lol
disco elysium
oh no no no no that's not right
VTMB, even patched up, has some pretty crappy combat and the other RPG mechanics outside of dialogue are all fairly weak. But it's a hell of a story and the voice acting is top notch.
Pillars of Eternity 1 has the worst gameplay of any of the newer CRPGs I've played. It also has a wonderful story that makes it incredibly worth it.
Maybe I should watch a playthough sometime, because I just couldn't force myself through it
Played planescape: torment? It's like they decided the bg1 gameplay was too streamlined and fun. But possibly the best written game of all time.
I think it used the somewhat confusing 2e rules; certainly took some getting used to
It absolutely did, Baldur's gate 1 and 2, Icewind dale 1 and 2, and PST all used 2e. I used to play it tabletop so I didn't find it confusing, just dull.
FNV is unfortunately made in the gamebryo engine and it sucks ass. If Obsidian had been given time and permission to make n isometric 2d game like Fallout 1 and 2 it would have been so much better
I really wish FNV was enjoyable to play. An online acquaintance bought me a copy when I mentioned I'd never played it and unfortunately it's just... Not fun. Bad enough that the writing couldn't carry it, for me. That's also because I don't like open world games tbf, I wind up wandering around doing nothing for hours.
wrong
it sucks real bad, sorry
New Vegas is even worse as an open world game because Obsidian really don't have that level design sauce that Bethesda do. If you go for a wander in a random direction, you'll probably just find look at empty desert for five minutes then find a house with nothing in it.
The investigation parts in the first four ace attorney games are very clunky
Ey, the first one here I fully agree with.
I adore the courtroom parts of the Ace Attorney games and despise the investigation parts which almost always were reduced down to "click everything again and again".
I didn't know what a crpg was til i read this thread now i know it means crap rpg
Arcanum.
Lobotomy Corporation is a cool story about running an SCP-style organization whose gameplay is an excruciating exercise in grinding and micromanagement where a combination of punishing difficulty and save game limitations can cause one small mistake to wipe out half an hour or more of progress.
One of my favorite games is Dragon Warrior (/Quest) on the NES, but gameplay-wise gave me an impossibly high tolerance for grinding from far too young of an age. Fucking wyverns….
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Tabletop, DnD, board games, and minecraft. Also Animal Crossing.
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