I'd prefer to have the unlimited plan : rpgmemes

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 80 points 11 months ago

This is one of the reasons I'm really not happy with DND. I just don't want to play a resource management game. I want to do cool stuff.

There are lots of games that aren't built around resource management and attrition, but unfortunately DND is so popular it sucks all the air out of the room.

[-] Khrux@ttrpg.network 30 points 11 months ago

I do feel that slowly, edition by edition, D&D is moving closer to it's recourse management being tied to it's round based action economy which I actually enjoy.

As a player, it's already pretty easy to play this way, before counting subclasses, the rogue has literally no abilities that are limited by anything but once per turn, and if you pick some fun narrative spells as warlock and rely on invocations and eldritch blast, you can be totally effective without any resource management. Both of these exclude hitpoints of course but that is a pretty reasonable resource for a combat focussed fantasy game.

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 13 points 11 months ago

My understanding is that OneDnd was moving more towards per-long-rest instead of anything else. I haven't been following it for a few months though.

I would vastly prefer if powers were based on something more granular than long rest.

[-] Khrux@ttrpg.network 4 points 11 months ago

Oh yeah it is but I'm not really counting that as a new edition, just a minor reshuffling of the 2014 rules.

[-] Neato@kbin.social 16 points 11 months ago

You can play fighter or warlock. Dnd limits extreme power with spell slots and charges. Otherwise they'd have to nerf the upper power level. Can't have people casting fire storm every few minutes. It'd ruin balance AND ensure you had to cast that every time to deal with increased threats.

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 13 points 11 months ago

Yes, but someone is probably going to play a long rest class and force the entire game to center around that cadence. And the long rest cadence kind of sucks for me.

There are other ways to do game balance.

[-] pancakes@sh.itjust.works 7 points 11 months ago

How do you do long rests that makes it annoying? Usually it's:

Party: We would like to take a long rest.

DM: Sounds good, you are now rested.

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

If you let players take too many long rests in DND 5e it fucks over short-rest and no-rest classes. Long rest people get more Fun Stuff than everyone else. Feels bad.

Edit: also it does weird things to the story pacing. Any time sensitivity gets weird if the players are going a five minute adventuring day

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[-] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 11 months ago

For my group I have them make sure to secure the area as their rest may get interrupted if they don't

But I also roll on a relevant encounter table when they do and add a modifier based on the groups checks for it being secure (usually a survival check, so usually it's the ranger doing the rolling for that)

Short rests are a lot easier though

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 6 points 11 months ago

Random encounters aren't the most interesting thing to do at the table for most people. Design choices that funnel the play time into them then seems like a poor idea.

If you're playing the game just for the combat itself then it's probably fine. But if you're playing for any sort of story then fighting a random pack of spiders probably pays off less than fighting plot relevant stuff.

[-] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 11 months ago

That's my secret really, the players never see my random encounter tables. They roll the dice but they don't see the table.

They include a lot of stuff relevant to what's going on more than "random spiders"

A good example is when they were trying to locate an old run down keep that a local band of bandits were using as a hideout. The random encounter table included such things as: group of bandits on their way back after a raid (successful, not, injured, not, etc), group of recent hostages on their way to freedom (escaped, released, escorted, etc), a caravan being raided nearby by the bandits in question (or others), rival bandits on the same mission, etc. A couple entries are (of course) night passes peacefully and usually there's 1 or 2 creature encounters (that can usually be avoided), and hell even a "sounds in the distance (insert kind of sound based on perception check(this may lead back to the earlier table))". And even some stuff that may lead to new adventures.

It's more work than just "creatures roll initiative" but IMO is way more rewarding, and my players seem to enjoy it a lot.

Random encounter tables is a vague term but unfortunately I think may be the correct one in this case.

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[-] Neato@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago

Most classes are long rest classes. Any caster besides warlock is.

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[-] 8bitMage@ttrpg.network 8 points 11 months ago

Yeah, I hate that DnD is such a resource management game too. (More so that is is the ONLY game my group will consider playing.)

I tend to horde any limited resource. TTRPG or video game.

Is this group of mooks big enough to justify using power/spell/item X? Is there a bigger group around the corner? Is this just a lieutenant or the BBEG? Oh, this guy is monologueing, he must be the BBEG. But does his fight have multiple phases? OR is he just a puppet and the real BBEG is waiting for us to blow all our abilities.

Doesn’t matter how narratively I’m engaged in the plot. I’ve got a tactically aware mind and these thoughts are always there.

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 4 points 11 months ago

Same.

In my last DND game, where the wizard was extremely fast and loose with his spell slots, the DM gave him a free long rest in the middle of the final boss fight. It kind of sort of made sense for story reasons but not really. I was honestly kind of pissed. Like on the one hand the wizard was having fun. On the other like what's the point if we're going to do that. I've been here doing the tactical "this is how we can solve this problem with the fewest resources spent" and no one else is, and he gets this? Ugh.

Even Baldur's gate 3 betrayed me like this. There's a lengthy sequence that I did with like no resources spent. It was slow and cautious but I knew there was a big boss at the end of it. And then they put a fucking full-rest fountain right before the boss fight. I could've been fireballing everything instead of playing smart!

When it was my turn to DM, before the scene I just complained about, that wizard was practically begging for a long rest. No sir. You get multiple hard encounters and a race against enemies. Maybe don't blow Hold Person on the fleeing civilian when the rogue has expertise and is ready to grapple next time.

I'm much happier now that we're playing a different system.

[-] NotAnonymousAtAll@feddit.de 7 points 11 months ago

Most abilities should be either "per round/turn" or "per encounter".

Abilities that are too powerful for that should either not exist or require significant preparation (enough for the opposition to have a chance to discover and interrupt it).

Abilities that fall in the second category should automatically come with a less powerful variant in the first category.

Maybe as a middle ground some player abilities could use the "roll for recharge" mechanic from powerful monster abilities.

[-] Landsharkgun@midwest.social 4 points 11 months ago

I kinda disagree with all of this. Big abilities that come with in-universe complications are the bread and butter of RPGs. E.G. Connection: Mafia: You know a guy in the mafia you can ask for help, but he might want a favor later...

Or think of things like Wish, etc.

It kinda sounds like you want a wargame with a bit of story connecting the battles. Which is fine, but then just play a wargame I guess?

[-] NotAnonymousAtAll@feddit.de 5 points 11 months ago

I think we don't actually disagree and I was just not precise enough in my original post.

What I described above applies to abilities that are relevant in combat and any other type of encounter that the respective system mechanically treats as a conflict similar to combat. That absolutely does not mean other abilities should not exist, just that they should not be practically usable during an ongoing combat-like short term conflict.

Also: Abilities that are useful in short term combat-like conflicts and abilities that are not should not compete for mechanical resources of any kind, that is never fun.

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[-] PhineaZ@feddit.de 5 points 11 months ago

If you like large power scales and epic stories I very much recommend Earthdawn.

[-] ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net 5 points 11 months ago

NGL if you take out what's left of the resources in 5e you'll reduce the game to exclusively standing in front of the enemy taking turns hitting each other, instead of just mostly.

The truth is if you want a resourceless game you're gonna have to play a different system, and if you're gonna play a different system you're gonna have to run it. Luckily, it's very easy to get groups for new systems, because you just tell the 5e players it's D&D and they probably won't even notice the rules changed.

[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 5 points 11 months ago

I'd love to play other systems. My weekly group finally agreed to try other things on the regular, and so far everyone has really enjoyed it. I think the core engine is called Year Zero? Honestly the guy running it maybe did a smart thing by giving the group a short Google doc with the rules summarized instead of the actual rule book. Getting players to read is embarrassing difficult.

Also, are you me? Because I have often half jokingly said that you could just change from 5e to another system and the average player wouldn't notice because they're so bad at the rules anyway.

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[-] Siethron@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago

ELDRITCH BLAST

[-] HRDS_654@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Guidance would also fit well.

[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 30 points 11 months ago

I prefer the Warhammer Fantasy approach: if you can use magic, it's at will as many times as you want it, but it can fail and, more importantly, backfire spectacularly.

Also, that DnD5 made cantrips scale up in power with player level is something I enjoyed at first, but the more I think about it, the less I like it. Especially when you can make a whatever 19 / warlock 1 and throw 4x 1d10 attacks at very long range at will.

[-] Lorgres@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Another system that does it well imo is Shadowrun. In 5th edition (never played the others) when you cast a spell you can take mental damage. If you cast the spell on a weak level you are fine but if you go full-out then you can KO yourself pretty quick. Especially if you roll bad on your damage resist roll.

[-] ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 months ago

In Shadowrun 5, you can take physical damage if you cast the spell at a powerful enough level.

[-] shasta@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

5e is still balanced because of the opportunity cost. If you grab that 1 level in warlock, you'll never get the level 20 perks of your main class. If you pick up that 1 warlock level when you're around level 5 it means you're postponing your next main class power spike by a whole level. The rewards have to be somewhat worth taking because of what you're losing.

And to be fair, none of the official campaigns even play at level 20. It may sound OP doing that much damage at will but you're missing the context. Your enemies at level 20 are basically going to be literal gods. You're going to be playing a homebrewed campaign. Your DM has many tools available to make your level 20 cantrip balanced, not least of which is just scaling up the enemy HP.

[-] grahamja@reddthat.com 23 points 11 months ago

I will take all the passive abilities please, I already have 5 hot keys assigned and will never remember anymore.

[-] solidfang@ttrpg.network 20 points 11 months ago

Yeah. I feel like as things keep changing, I'm growing less fond of TTRPG's that are pure battles of attrition. It's nice to have things you can use at will. Or if there is a limited resource, having a way to regain some of that resource on the fly makes for more dynamic game states.

[-] Naz@sh.itjust.works 7 points 11 months ago

PC Warlock (A): I finish my turn, open the door and take a short rest."

Me (GM): So you what, slump against the wall and take a nap?

PC Warlock (A): "Effectively."

Me (GM): "You can clearly see an armored bandit in the next room, along with three skeleton archers and another set at the far wall."

PC Warlock (A): "Can they reach me on this turn?"

Me (GM): "No?"

PC Warlock (A): "Can they hit me with a ranged attack, this turn?"

Me (GM): "Also no"

PC Warlock (A): "Short rest."

[-] GTG3000@programming.dev 4 points 11 months ago

Short rests take an entire hour though.

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[-] Halfjack@reddthat.com 14 points 11 months ago

In my current 5e game, I have some items that have soft limits on how often you can use them, in that each time you use them you make a con save or gain a level of exhaustion, and the dc increases as you use them more, and the dc resets when you finish a long rest without any exhaustion.

[-] obre@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago

What's a good example of an item like that?

[-] Witchfire@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Not an item, but a barbarian's relentless rage

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[-] ReCursing@kbin.social 13 points 11 months ago

I really dislike "per day" resource management, it really limits the way in which stories are constructed!

[-] Kuro@lemm.ee 8 points 11 months ago

Same here, I'm always debating with myself:

"Should I use this? Should I save it for later? I'll save it."

Then I never use it...

[-] Neato@kbin.social 14 points 11 months ago

Use it the first time it's needed. Always use it. As a DM I often expect people to use their stuff. Besides, having low resources makes for interesting decisions. And the DM will know if you're all out of resources anyways.

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[-] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The biggest mistake I made with the Cleric I play in my current session is that I do have Guiding Bolt, a 1st level spell dealing 4d6 radiant damage with a spell attack, but not Word of Radiance, which deals 1d6 radiant damage against anyone whom I want to cast it on as a cantrip, or Sacred Flame, which does 1d8 radiant against a specific target, also as a cantrip. I'm pretty much going into my upcoming boss fight against a (presumed) vampire going "I want y'all to pin down and/or restrain the fucker, 'cause I get only one shot at this and I want to make it count."

[-] HipsterTenZero@dormi.zone 11 points 11 months ago

I'm on the complete other side of the meme, give my wizards crossbows and Locate-City bombs, please

[-] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 11 months ago

Fun fact: At my table I ruled Primeval Awareness to be a "use per day equal to proficiency modifier" rather than spell slots (there's more to our change but that's the TLDR version)

It was so damn expensive that the ranger at the table never used it before I made the ruling because, "that's way too expensive for so little use," which I agreed with

Currently we're still testing the new version of it but we're liking it so far, it's still open for tinkering before we "add it to the rules board" but it's soon going to be put there at this rate

Link to the RAW ability for those curious

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I once made a sorcerer that used nothing but Prestidigitation along with a super high deception skill to be like the Chris Angel of Faerun because it's a cantrip and I never run out of casts for it like I would with real spells.

"I cast prestidigitation as I shout 'fireball' and turn my wand into a sparkler."

"The kobolds piss themselves and run away."

[-] AlpineSteakHouse@hexbear.net 9 points 11 months ago

There's a good reason for the going for the last one: Opportunity Cost.

If you're in a situation and have an ability that can only be used once a day, you can never really know if this encounter will be the optimal use. So you hold off on it and thus get less utility. Even if you are regularly using it, having something you can always get utility out of is far more valuable than something that is strong but wasted sometimes.

[-] Thyrian@ttrpg.network 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

If I can get wish, I will get wish.

[-] MouseKeyboard@ttrpg.network 8 points 11 months ago

I thought that before I started playing, but since then I have leaned further towards the first two.

[-] GammaGames@beehaw.org 4 points 11 months ago

Prestidigitates freely

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