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[-] NephewAlphaBravo@hexbear.net 72 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Quarterly reminder that "protagonist" doesn't just mean "the good guy"

[-] Philosophosphorous@hexbear.net 46 points 2 months ago

yea its like criticizing red dead redemption because you can't play entirely nonlethally. the point of the fiction is to analyze the topics via the player character. its not an RPG (it has like 2 or 3 'decisions' you can make in cutscene/QTE scenarios that lead to 2 or 3 slightly different endings that are all kinda depressing) its a linear 3rd person cover shooter. COD: Black Ops 2 is more of a choice based RPG than this. the whole point is that the war crimes feel the same as the normal gameplay, because normal military shooter gameplay is already making horrible things like war and murder feel 'rewarding' and 'compelling' and 'satisfying'. how many times have you executed a wounded or 'downed' enemy in video games? perhaps even with a fancy animated 'execution'... its a war crime.

[-] Frank@hexbear.net 34 points 2 months ago

I actually agree. Giving the player no option then scolding them generally isn't effective. Give them two horrible options? Sure. Make them make a choice. If they didn't make a decision it generally doesn't land.

[-] daniyeg@hexbear.net 39 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

any other propaganda military shooters doesn't give you a choice neither. yeah i agree it's bad as a morality to system to just say "well if you wanna be good just quit" but spec ops isn't some rpg it has all the mechanics of its genre including the lack of choice but it's opposing their dominant narrative. if you had the option not to murder the civilians i think the impact of the game would be lost.

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[-] Cowbee@hexbear.net 32 points 2 months ago

You actually do have an option IIRC, it just never tells you. It's supposed to highlight why the military is systemically bad and appears to remove all choice, even if individual soldiers could disobey orders.

[-] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 28 points 2 months ago

Yeah, the only big unavoidable choice is the white phosphorus

pretty sure in most others you can either stand for a second and it proceeds or you shoot into the air instead of at someone and it proceeds

[-] edge@hexbear.net 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

While the white phosphorus part doesn't give you a choice, isn't it basically that they used it only intending to hit military targets, then it turns out it hit civilians too? shocked-pikachu

I think it's not a choice precisely because it's the worst or most blatant war crime in the game IIRC and most people would decide against it even for "only military targets" and that would stop them from getting the point across.

It's been a long time since I've played it so I might not be remembering entirely right. I might play it again now.

[-] Babs@hexbear.net 16 points 2 months ago

Yeah the white phosphorus scene was really dumb but the rest felt justified.

[-] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 11 points 2 months ago

Yeah, the white phosphorous scene doesn't really work unless you're coming into it with a mindset of "whoa badass, this is gonna be just like those AC-130 missions in Call of Duty"

Apparently the devs wanted to include a branching story path where the player doesn't use the WP, but they didn't have the budget.

[-] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 2 months ago

You should have an explicit option to refuse war crimes, but then it should turn into something like a Hugh Thompson simulator.

CW war crimesWhen news of the massacre publicly broke, Thompson repeated his account to then-Colonel William Wilson[6]: 222–235  and then-Lieutenant General William Peers during their official Pentagon investigations.[15] In late-1969, Thompson was summoned to Washington, DC to appear before a special closed hearing of the House Armed Services Committee. There, he was sharply criticized by congressmen, in particular Chairman Mendel Rivers (D-S.C.), who were anxious to play down allegations of a massacre by American troops.[6]: 290–291  Rivers publicly stated that he felt Thompson was the only soldier at Mỹ Lai who should be punished (for turning his weapons on fellow American troops) and unsuccessfully attempted to have him court-martialed.[5]

Thompson was vilified by many Americans for his testimony against United States Army personnel. He recounted in a CBS 60 Minutes television program in 2004, "I'd received death threats over the phone...Dead animals on your porch, mutilated animals on your porch some mornings when you get up."[16][7]

[-] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yeah I was just following orders

🤔

[-] EstraDoll@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago

No one forced you to pick up a copy of Bland Early 2010s Modern Military Shooter: Pentagon Propaganda Boogaloo edgeworth-shrug. You picked it up (ostensibly) knowing what it is and what it was going to include

[-] Lurker123@hexbear.net 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Why use that image of edgeworth to make your point? That’s edgeworth standing on the right side of the courtroom, where he’s always wrong.

The whole point of the ace attorney games is if you are on the left, you are good and correct. If you are on the right, you are evil and wrong. And if you are in the center, you are either a hopelessly confused idiot, or evil.

[-] EstraDoll@hexbear.net 17 points 2 months ago

type :shrug to look up emojis

took the one of the argumentative lawyerman

That's... a bit of a stretch to consider that using a shrugging emoji of an antagonist in a video game means my argument is inherently wrong?

[-] Inui@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I think the sidebar in the emoji comm is helpful to remember. It says "emojis are what they convey", so expecting everyone to know the direct reference to the video game (and by extension all other 2400 emojis) is a little much. You can use it that way or as a lil guy shrugging.

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[-] pooh@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The player could always make the choice to stop playing and turn the game off, and it even says as much during one of the loading screens so it’s 100% intentional. Often times the correct choice is one that is outside the narrow range of choices that are given, and I believe that was the point the developer was trying to make.

EDIT: It’s worth checking out the loading screen messages in the game, since these often give away what the devs intended, sometimes in an ironic way. Some examples:

  • To kill for yourself is murder. To kill for your government is heroic. To kill for entertainment is harmless.

  • Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two conflicting ideas simultaneously.

  • You are still a good person.

  • The US military does not condone the killing of unarmed combatants. But this isn't real, so why should you care?

  • Do you feel like a hero yet?

  • If you were a better person, you wouldn't be here.

  • Kill a man, and you are a murderer. Kill everyone, and you are a god.

There’s a whole list here: https://pastebin.com/w7x0LJ5w

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[-] MrStalin@hexbear.net 25 points 2 months ago

Spec Ops The Line is a fantastic game that just so happens to be a thorough deconstruction of the generic power fantasy military shooter so naturally gamers hate it for making them question why they enjoy playing games like Call of Duty or Battlefield.

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 12 points 2 months ago

Yep. It holds a mirror up very thoroughly to the audience to show them what they are and they unsurprisingly HATE that.

[-] VILenin@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago

Sends them scurrying back to their reddit shithole to jack off to gore footage of surrendering Russian conscripts being blown up

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[-] insurgentrat@hexbear.net 25 points 2 months ago

Gamers are the least media literate of people who's entire hobby is about exposing themselves to media.

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's probably time to start including videogames in English or whatever class covers media literacy. Not just movies and books.

[-] insurgentrat@hexbear.net 13 points 2 months ago

Can you imagine the backlash though? From chuds and boomers alike.

I spend too much of my life in games (board, social, or video I play them all!) and I really do wish more people who enjoy them were interested in critical analysis of them. Outside of gamedev circles and weird youtube channels asking "why is this being presented the way it is?" is a technique for speedrunning slur%. Especially if a game is non, or non traditional, narrative. Like I dare you to try analyse the themes of slay the spire or whatever on the subreddit haha.

[-] RION@hexbear.net 24 points 2 months ago

Shout out to the time SUPERHOT tried the "Stop playing the game! I mean it! You'll be responsible for the consequences!" thing and I just ended up shutting it off and never playing it again

[-] smallsmellyfrog@hexbear.net 18 points 2 months ago

But but but you end up shooting yourself in the back of the head. It's tight.

[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The game works if you realize that there is no “bad apples” when they work for the empire, only “good apples,” and even then 9/10 times, they will volunteer to be a rotten apple for self preservation. Therefore, the only choices you have are to kill, kill, and kill.

But i don’t think Americans are introspective to be making media like that. I believe it really was just a dumb gotcha ‘mmmm hypocrite much?? smuglord ” game

[-] barrbaric@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

That comment is probably bait posted by the OP in the image on another window to drum up engagement.

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this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2024
119 points (97.6% liked)

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