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[-] Thorry84@feddit.nl 198 points 2 months ago

Is this an American thing? We did absolutely not have to memorize any of that thing. We had to understand the structure, why the rows and columns etc. But memorizing it serves no purpose.

With every class including tests and exams we were allowed to use a reference book. This book was pretty thick and contained a whole lot of info including the periodic table and all the info about elements you could ever need.

I think my education (keep in mind this was 25 years ago) was focused more on the why and less on the what. If you understand why something is the way it is, the reason behind it and how to use it, you know a lot more than just being a flesh book that can list a bunch of facts.

[-] krashmo@lemmy.world 112 points 2 months ago

It's easier to verify rote memorization than actual understanding so naturally shitty schools focus on the former at the expense of the latter. Most American schools are shitty by academic standards.

[-] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 32 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You're not kidding. Public school in the city.

There were so many dumb things I had to memorize. Periodic table. Solar system moon and planets. Multiplication table.

Even worse is the people who see memory as intelligence because of that BS. I remember working at a office and the boss made Steve, the guy who knew 15 digits of Pi, his right hand man. Steve is currently still working there. Congrats Steve your superior memory apparently can't get you out of your deadend job.

[-] NutinButNet@hilariouschaos.com 6 points 2 months ago

If you haven’t already, you should watch Mystery Team specifically for the character of Duncan “Boy Genius” who absolutely fits this characterization to a T.

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On the flip side, most American engineering degree programs do not rely on rote memorization, and instead heavily emphasize problem solving (especially these days), because, you know, computers and the internet exist, and faculty tend to understand that fact.

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[-] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 52 points 2 months ago

In Spain we did have to memorize it. Truly idiotic. People just invented mnemonic phrases to get through the exam and that's it. It served no educational purpose whatsoever.

[-] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 months ago

Of the four levels of learning, rote memorization is the lowest, easiest to achieve, easiest to test, and least useful. The student can demonstrate the ability to repeat a memorized phrase verbatim, or given a couple seconds to think about it they can rephrase it in their own words using their mental thesaurus. Multiple choice and short answer questions test rote memorization, which happen to be easy to grade, machines can do it. Rote memorization will have little effect on the student's overall behavior, if it's all you teach and test for you're not a teacher you're just cosplaying as one.

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[-] knatschus@discuss.tchncs.de 28 points 2 months ago

My teacher, in germany, used memorising it as a punishment. Like four dudes in my class had to do it.

[-] Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 months ago

Our teacher offered extra credit to anyone who chose to memorize it. It was crazy too, I almost considered trying it since it didn't seem that hard. The extra credit was enough to affect 20 percent of the grade. Then I realized most people who would try it are probably just smart enough to get an A already anyways, I know I was.

[-] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 months ago

In my school extra credit like that was mostly for the smart people who dicked around a lot or had difficult home lives and missed tests. That way if you needed to shore up some grades you could get it done outside the normal study routine

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[-] LANIK2000@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

Czech here, also had to memorize it. But our school system here is 90% just memorizing shit, it's a fucking joke.

[-] Benaaasaaas@lemmy.world 22 points 2 months ago

In Lithuania we literally have the whole periodic table on the wall in every chemistry class I have ever been to.

[-] Denvil@lemmy.one 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

In the US we also have that in a lot of classes... they just cover it up during tests -_-

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[-] leisesprecher@feddit.org 11 points 2 months ago

My school was barely 15 years ago, but we also had a thin book handed out to us in 7th grade or so that contained charts and references for pretty much everything in a very condensed form. Periodic tables, formulas for math and physics, chemical and physical attributes for a bunch of materials, ... And the entire ASCII table for some reason.

That was in Germany during the 00s and I still have that book, and three or four copies I stole over time.

[-] kamenlady@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

and three or four copies I stole over time.

Gut gemacht, Leiser

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

Memorizing the periodic table is probably the high-school assignment I'm most angry about to this day.

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[-] helpImTrappedOnline@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

In America, we didn't have to truley memorize it. For tests we had a reference packet that included the table.

That being said we did have to memorize a few major ones.

Its also important to recognize education is a state by state thing, not federal. The curriculum in Texas can be different than the one in Florida. Even teacher to teacher, I could see one class having to memorize it while the one next door doesn't.

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[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

American here - we didn't have to memorize it. All we had to do was know the groupings (Noble gas, metalloids, etc)

[-] JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

It might be, I didn't take chemistry in high school but those I know who did spent weeks memorizing it.

[-] scytale@lemm.ee 5 points 2 months ago

You were lucky. Many education systems around the world still use memorization instead of comprehension as a measurement of learning.

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[-] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 78 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I'm a biochemist and I think the periodic table is easy to memorize. "Hydrogen, blah blah blah, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen" and that's it. Wait, hold on, sodium and chlorine are also on there somewhere...

[-] The_v@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

My undergrad biochemistry course was taught team taught by a microbiologist and a molecular biologist because the biochemist got fired for sexually harassing a few students.

The molecular biologist was a cool guy and taught concepts. I got an easy A in that section.

The next few weeks were taught by the microbiologist. That asshole wanted us to memorize a ton of different pathways on our second midterm (cyclic acid, fermentations, photosynthetic,, MAPK etc..). Something like 20 total. I took an F on that one.

Luckily the final was a standardize test that all universities in the state used that year. So I ended up with a B.

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[-] norimee@lemmy.world 73 points 2 months ago

We had the periodic table in huge letters on the wall of our chemistry classroom. Wouldbe difficult to not allow students to use it during tests.

One of my nursing school teachers used to say "You don't have to know everything, you just have to know where to look it up." I always thought that's very good and practical advice.

[-] dev_null@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 months ago

Same.

So during the test the teacher listed element names out loud with no pauses, and you were supposed to write down the symbol while she was speaking, and then another list in reverse. After the last element we had to immediately put the pens down. Whole test took ~45 seconds for 30 elements.

This was so that it was impossible to read from the big table on the wall, you had no time to look away from the paper. You'd miss the next 3 elements by the time you looked away to find the one.

[-] norimee@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

Honestly, that sounds insane. And incompetent.
Whoever made this a requirement did not have in mind to give you a good and useful education.

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[-] SpiceyDejarik@lemm.ee 43 points 2 months ago

I was a chemistry major in college. The tests all came with a periodic table for reference. Didn't have to memorize a thing. We were even allowed to use calculators! High school was full of lies.

[-] bluewing@lemm.ee 12 points 2 months ago

I have nothing against calculators. But I have taught some elementary and jr high school math classes in my old a feeble age. The "why can't we use calculators" and " what do I need to know this for" was a constant whinge I had to listen to and deal with.

Why I want you to know how to solve a quadratic equation isn't because that's what you are going to do for the rest of your life. But rather, I want you to see something like that in the far future and go "Oh, I know what this and that it isn't gibberish. And I can whip out that smart phone I got and google it to find the howto steps to solve it." And I want you to acquire the discipline to learn things. Besides, just knowing what 7x3 is, makes everything else so much easier to learn in math. That removes fear and stress point and builds the confidence to tackle more complex ideas.

I probably own more calculators than most here. So, I'm all for them. And I did always allow any student to use a calculator in class. I would just hand you a slide rule.....(and yes, I'm that old to have used them in class as a kid and I still own a couple). But, when I was teaching, I really wanted my students get their fingers dirty with the numbers themselves and to learn how those numbers work. While getting the correct answer is very important, as a teacher, I was perhaps less concerned with the correct answer and more concerned with HOW you got that answer. Because if you know what you did to get that answer, you are far more likely to get the right answer than the wrong answer.

In the end, I think education needs to be approached from the idea of making learning more fun. No matter the subject. Sadly, that's a very difficult trick for any teacher in the typical class room to accomplish.

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[-] Comment105@lemm.ee 12 points 2 months ago

School is supposed to prepare you for solving chemical problems in a tent in the woods with nothing but paper and pencil and meager rations.

Involving civilization, literature and tools is entirely unsuited for the end goal.

[-] lengau@midwest.social 5 points 2 months ago

Chemistry fans: And obscurium is really cool, because it has three stable isotopes right near each other, but it's not really useful for anything...

Chemists: why are my results so weird? Oh, right - hydrogen can have a neutron sometimes.

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[-] MrJameGumb@lemmy.world 36 points 2 months ago

We had to memorize that entire fucking thing in highschool...

[-] Console_Modder@sh.itjust.works 47 points 2 months ago

Luckily I had a teacher that thought it was bullshit we had to memorize the whole table and "forgot" to cover the wall-sized poster of the periodic table during the exam

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[-] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 months ago

That's stupid, who the fuck needs to know about antimony

[-] moody@lemmings.world 16 points 2 months ago
[-] qarbone@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

No! Absolutely not! Are you trying to kill us all?!

[-] moody@lemmings.world 5 points 2 months ago

I'm trying, but you're not making it easy.

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[-] ornery_chemist@mander.xyz 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Most chem PhDs don't even know the whole thing lol. We had to memorize just the symbols in high school, but positions weren't required. In my grad-level inorg course, the first test was a blank table that we had to fill in, but even then the f-block and transactinides were not required.

[-] MrJameGumb@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

It worked so well I managed to retain that knowledge for almost a full week after we were tested on it lol it's all gone now

[-] kireotick@lemmy.world 23 points 2 months ago

I'm so glad Swedish schools have mostly ditched memorization (maybe too much sometimes though)

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[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 13 points 2 months ago

My chemistry teacher tried to teach us a "song" to remember it.

"Hehee libeb canofnee something something piscalar"

Which is stupid, because it was just reading the first few rows of it, but annoying that was 30 years ago and I still fucking remember it. I can't even remember what I did yesterday. Fucking head full of nonsense.

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[-] Etterra@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

Teachers in the 90s: you won't always have a calculator.

Me now: you were saying Ms. Knowitall?

[-] Zacryon@feddit.org 11 points 2 months ago

But, consider you're stranded in the wild. All technology lost due to an accident. It's just you, nature and your skills. How will you know then for how many days the melons you've foraged will suffice if you've found N of them and eat one a day? /j

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[-] tinycalcifer@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

That was a short answer that turned out to be mostly wrong. The longer answer is "if you don't understand how this works, you won't have the intuition to notice when you get absurd results from the calculator". If you don't have that intuition, then when you inevitably make a small usage mistake on a calculator (or in matlab or wolfram alpha or whatever), you'll end up not realizing that you got a clearly wrong answer.

[-] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

Lazy teaching

[-] SanndyTheManndy@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

Just sing the Tom Lehrer Elements song

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this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2024
1168 points (99.2% liked)

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