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It's like these libs believe that Kamala is entitled to our vote.

If I didn't vote for PSL, then I simply would not vote! It's not "PSL or Kamala;" it's "PSL or sit on my ass at home."

I know libs don't understand nuance, but it still is so frustrating that they put this framing on me where they assume that I have any actual interest in a Kamala president over a Trump presidency.

Not only that, but this person called Claudia de la Cruz a "clowny leftist with no choice of winning" (which isn't the point of a third party vote; let's be real), but I just told the lib, "You call her clowny, but you are literally guilt tripping and insulting me just because I won't vote for someone who is actively greenlighting a genocide on Palestinians." and then I blocked.

Whether Trump or Kamala wins, I'll enjoy social media outrage from either side, but it seems like what I'll see from liberals in the case of a Trump election will be more entertaining. I truly think libs are beyond being redeemed, and that even goes for the more "progressive" types who appropriate the label of "democratic socialist" like Bernie and AOC. I don't adhere to lesser-evilism, so I'm not gonna pretend that this one-party state with two parties has one side over the other functioning in a way that could especially benefit me.

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[-] Barx@hexbear.net 5 points 4 hours ago

American political engagement is thoroughly atomized. Americans have no immediate political vehicles for their frustrations or ideals outside of things like charity, they have no ideological struggle into which they can plug in as community or a real participatory agent. Instead, they have media "discourse", like TV, radio, podcasts, streamers, YouTube videos, where their role is as an observer slotting themselves into the chair of some pundit and seeing how far they can agree with or defend them. They do not curiously investigate and inform themselves on a topic, but they feel desperate to have an opinion so that they can "win" and be condescending to their "enemies". Under this thought regime, "I don't know " is a sign of weakness and means you aren't political and don't care and aren't a good person.

It's important to understand that, accorsingly, Americans' political opinions are usually worthless, they are inconsistent propaganda premisesed on contrarian aggressiveness and dismissiveness with nothing below the surface to back it up. This is annoying but it is also fragile, so you, as a much cooler person that does know things, can have a lot of power over a conversation and can go in basically any direction that you would like to - so long as you practice keeping your cool (not that they deserve it, it is just a valuable tool).

For example, let's say this is a friend or family member and you want to convince them. This is actually mostly about how much they like you and whether you can get them to listen to positive cases for what you advocate for. If you make them feel good for listening to you and get them to watch some videos or read a book or attend actions, you will probably eventually win, as in get them to adopt much better positions. They may need to process this information for some time and may come back to you to tell you about them as if they made these discoveries all on their own and without your help, lol. It can be useful to debunk some of the things they say, but without a displacing narrative they will probably not have a good way to resolve the cognitive dissonance this creates. For example, why support PSL? Well you can provide your own case of course, but I might say something like, "we need to advance socialist working class organizations to build a just alternative for humanity's sake and this is one small and easy way to do so." You can of course say why the two genocidal capitalist parties are inadequate, but this will lead to long and rambling discussions. And while doing so, you want a calm, patient, and friendly attitude where what you really want them to do is to read Blackshirts and Reds or something. You want to get to the point of making a specific ask because them understanding your perspective is important to you and it would be a supportive thing for them to do and you will read it with them. That kind of thing. Or get them to join a propaganda action. Move them towards personal connection and involvement. Obviously there is a caveat: if the person is abusive towards you disregard all advice and take care of yourself.

Or let's say they are an acquaintance and you just want to shut them up. Well then you can be critical as shot. They will fall apart in seconds.

[-] rando895@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 5 hours ago

Do people who vote for Trump say a similar thing?

Regardless, maybe from here on out if someone says "A vote for third party is a vote for X!" Just tell them "Ohh I didn't know, I'll just vote for X then".

[-] JuanGLADIO@hexbear.net 7 points 6 hours ago

I voted for Claudia. Wife wrote in Rashida. I wonder what leaving it blank does to them but voting for other things? (I left the senator blank Schiff doesn't get my vote either)

[-] sovietknuckles@hexbear.net 15 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Guy on an electric bike asked if I would stop funding the genocide in Gaza so he would vote for me and I told him I'm not really "into stopping funding genocides right now" and he said "that's cool" and let me rant about means-tested healthcare but when it was over he said "that's what you're missing" and scooted off into the distance

[-] GenXen@hexbear.net 6 points 6 hours ago

It's like these libs believe that ~~Kamala~~ [INSERT CURRENT DEM SLOP] is entitled to our vote.

manhattan

[-] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 16 points 8 hours ago

I truly think libs are beyond being redeemed, and that even goes for the more "progressive" types who appropriate the label of "democratic socialist" like Bernie and AOC.

I used to think they could be moved left -- after all, many did -- but at this point I no longer believe that. So many of the libs who "moved left" under Trump, at least that I know, are now ride or die for Kdolf Hitler. If they won't grow a soul and reject liberalism because of genocide, they're beyond rehabilitating and aren't worth my time anymore. I'd rather engage with the politically unengaged than with the politically engaged liberal. The unengaged can be woken up to the truth, the engaged liberals see the truth and don't care.

[-] JuanGLADIO@hexbear.net 5 points 6 hours ago
[-] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 4 points 4 hours ago

They really did. It's been disheartening, alienating, and frightening to watch. I can't be friends with these people anymore, who don't care about genocide, so there go a lot of people I befriended in school.

[-] beef_curds@hexbear.net 22 points 10 hours ago

Not sure where you live, but if you don't live in a swing state, you're wasting your vote if you DON'T vote third party.

Matching public campaign funds are calculated nationally. If you're in a solid red/blue state then you're 100% wasting your vote on a major party, because they opt out of public funds, an your vote isn't going to change a built-in 10% difference in the tally. But if you vote 3rd party, you're voting into a national pool that could potentially get that 3rd party automatic ballot access and matching federal funds for campaigning.

So if you're like the majority of us, in a state that doesn't matter, then you can just levy the accusation right back at them and ask why they're wasting their vote.

[-] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 16 points 8 hours ago

No matter where you live you're wasting your vote if you don't vote third party

[-] beef_curds@hexbear.net 4 points 6 hours ago
[-] Angel@hexbear.net 8 points 8 hours ago

Interestingly enough, this lib is from NY.

[-] josie@vegantheoryclub.org 15 points 9 hours ago

Not sure where you live, but if you don’t live in a swing state, you’re wasting your vote if you DON’T vote third party.

This is exactly what I don't understand about this claim lol. Why the fuck does it matter if someone from Minnesota or New York for example votes for a third party. The republicans haven't won MN or NY in decades.

[-] GoodGuyWithACat@hexbear.net 20 points 10 hours ago

"The only wasted vote is a vote for something you don't believe in."

I heard this from a libertarian but it's still good to throw out.

[-] ProletarianDictator@hexbear.net 25 points 11 hours ago

Dems chose centrist Republicans with their policy agenda. Go focus your attention on them if you can't muster up meaningful policy to appeal to leftists.

YOU MADE THE TRADE, DONT BE MAD YOU CANT HAVE BOTH!

I'd be #khive right now if Biden stopped providing Israel with weapons. Instead, you are losing my vote forever by excusing genocide. Good job 👍 Hope rehabilitating Dick Chaney was worth it!

[-] roux@hexbear.net 63 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

I stick by my guns. All she literally had to do was say she was going to stop sending bombs to Israel for their genocide and to acknowledge that trans rights need to be protected and that she would at the very least work towards passing legislation for those things. That's all she needed to do and she'd have gotten my worthless red state vote.

ETA: Fuck Kamala Harris. ACAB.

[-] Belly_Beanis@hexbear.net 31 points 11 hours ago

...and not even follow through with any of it lol. She'd win while still supporting Isreal. Really easy to do but she can't just put the mask back on for five minutes and wait for the election to be over. Harris has to just rub everyone's noses in it.

[-] roux@hexbear.net 8 points 9 hours ago

Exactly, not even follow through at all. I'll take empty face-saving promises from a piece of shit candidate over laughing at dead Palestinians with her shit-eating "I'm speaking" catch phrase like some Simpsons caricature of herself. Our system is fucking broken so it really doesn't matter.

[-] Wakmrow@hexbear.net 4 points 7 hours ago

That was my math. At least fucking lie to me about being harm reduction. Just fucking lie. I know she wouldn't follow through but I would have to vote for moral reasons

[-] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 4 points 6 hours ago

No, bourgeois politicians should truthfully declare that they are awful, if they are not going to do anything good.

[-] jolliver_bromwell@hexbear.net 35 points 12 hours ago

im really enjoying telling libs that i voted for jill stein. it's the only way i've been able to get them to call me comrade

[-] EllenKelly@hexbear.net 45 points 13 hours ago

I don't even get a vote and I've had to listen to american liberals talk about how I am trying to destroy the country for months, tell these dweebs you're voting PSL for me lol

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 27 points 13 hours ago

I don’t even get a vote and I’ve had to listen to american liberals talk about how I am trying to destroy the country for months

:sad sicko emoji:

[-] EllenKelly@hexbear.net 14 points 12 hours ago

We're all trying in our own ways 😤

[-] sweet_pecan@hexbear.net 25 points 12 hours ago

WOOOOO VOTE PSL. DOES EVERYONE HAVE A PLAN TO VOTE??

[-] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 11 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

Already voted for them!

[-] miz@hexbear.net 13 points 11 hours ago

[the song "Gloria" but the lyrics are reworked and the chorus is "CLAUDIA! CLAUDIA!"]

[-] 2Password2Remember@hexbear.net 37 points 13 hours ago

imagine being such an entitled little baby that you think you deserve the opportunity to vote against genocide 😂😂

Death to America

[-] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 6 points 9 hours ago

Now I want to know what the Mayan glyph for KAMALA is.

[-] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 73 points 15 hours ago

Liberals: We have to save democracy!

Also liberals: But also you don't get to choose who to vote for

[-] VILenin@hexbear.net 33 points 11 hours ago

You have to save democracy, which is why we’ve simplified the process for you by removing all of the incorrect candidates from the ballot.

[-] jack@hexbear.net 11 points 10 hours ago

Helldivers satire too subtle

[-] TowardsTheFuture@lemmy.zip 33 points 12 hours ago

God dude I had someone yesterday be like “listen if the vote is between a salad and a cyanide pill you can’t vote for pizza just because you want it. You have to vote for salad.” And I’m just… yall just out here saying vote for Kamala or kill yourself? And you’re complaining the other party is facist?

[-] miz@hexbear.net 18 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

what, you don't remember during Trump's first term when he killed every single American? he'll do it again!

[-] ThermonuclearEgg@hexbear.net 53 points 15 hours ago

Also liberals: We're better than China because we have two parties you don't get to choose between instead of one

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this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2024
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