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this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2025
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chapotraphouse
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I really don’t get incels.
You’re chuds, how are you failing to socialize in the west?
Equal parts unrealistic expectations in wanting a companion coupled with being addicted to being in despair and being an evil person.
Unwilling or unable to even perform the appearance of "normal guy" that gets you looked at with a blind eye
While it is not simply true that every time you fight, you win, it is simply true that every time you don't fight, you lose. If one of these people with their terribe beliefs and vibes is unwilling to even try and pretend to be less hostile than they are, for at least as long as it takes to have a conversation with someone, it wouldn't make sense for them to expect positive results from that.
So you're saying hexbear should be brigading these incel forums with leftist, inclusive ideology to try to turn some people off their path of isolation and despair? It's not the worst idea I've heard
I've not written anywhere that incel ideology is right or that it does good to people. It clearly does not. What I am saying is that incels are wrong and you and a lot of people on this website are wrong too when they talk about dating and love and relationships.
I cannot even begin to say what a disgusting and untenable position this is. I have a thousand times more sympathy with an incel who cannot hide his misogyny and doesn't get what he wants than with a man who can hide his misogyny to get his dick wet and just gets what he wants. I'd much rather the misogynist does not "play a part" in social reproduction. The incel does much less harm to the world than the regular misogynist does.
Okay, all these things apply to my life and I had the option to not be an incel. No need to play defense for incels this hard.
Actually, I was going to save it, but no, we've already had this struggle session on the site where it was made clear that this level of defense for incels makes femme users uncomfortable. Socializing doesn't come easy to me, all you did were list excuses for not developing social skills though. I used to be friends with people who were incels IRL, and they became that way because they got coddled by the men in their life into thinking it was okay to not develop socially and "uWu they're mentally ill it's not their fault" when it very much is. There is no excuse for viewing women as subhuman because you have so little social skills that you can't find someone else as socially inept as you and build a relationship from there.
This is on the same level as "uWu it wasn't Hitler's fault, he was just a product of his environment". That's a true statement, he was a product of his environment, doesn't make him any less deserving of our ridicule.
It's not shaming them for not performing patriarchal masculinity, it's shaming them for hating women. You are being disingenuous if you think that's all we hate incels for.
whenever incels are mentioned there are dozens of posts pointing and laughing and laughing and pointing and laughing and pointing and laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointingand laughing and pointing and laughing and pointing
cool on you for getting help for your schizophrenia im just a weaker person who deserves to die i guess
So are you an incel?
I have never kissed a woman, I have never slept with a woman, even though i have craved companionship all my life. I feel lonely every time I go to sleep and every time I wake up. I feel ashamed for this and feel like there's something deeply personally wrong with me. My favorite movies are romance movies.
There's nothing wrong with you, and that doesn't make you an incel. I had a lot of these feelings when I was younger too. The difference between not getting laid and being an incel is the mindset you have. An incel uses their loneliness to fuel their loneliness and hatred towards other people. A normal person just gets a bit down about it. You don't have to play defense for hateful people because you're not included in that group unless you choose to be.
I feel for the people who just can't find companionship. It is hard in this capitalist hellscape to find it. But ultimately the best way to find that companionship is to get out there. I do pretty well on queer dating apps, high rates of neurodivergence and more leftism than normal dating apps, albeit still a lot of libs. Maybe you'll find someone on a discord server. I know long distance stuff kinda sucks, but it can be nice to have someone to fall asleep on call with and have that be your little "snuggle" fix.
Something I think you should remind yourself though is that you're often romanticizing romance. Many people in relationships are in messy relationships that they shouldn't be in. My last relationship existed, but was absolutely horrible for me. I was in that relationship because I felt the need to not be alone, and it destroyed me. Just put yourself out there in your own way, and you'll find someone eventually. Feel free to be a little flirty, as long as you're able to shut it down if someone asks you to.
no one has desired me in a decade. ive never felt part of a group. ive grown so much as a person over the last ten years, ive become such a more well-rounded more interesting person but none of that seems to matter, even at my most out-going there was just no one ot there for me. i just moved and i searched three years for a place and the place is much nicer but i just feel even more like shit. there seems to be less "out there" day by day and i live in a big fucking city and i am in university with people who have the same interest but everbody is too busy to have time for me and nobody wants to connect and im sure they all feel as lonely as i do but nothing ever amounts to anything and i got active in our institute and did events but nobody went to them
and im not queer i do not feel like a gender i do not feel like presenting any different or being anything and if people want to say he that is alright and if they want to say my name thats alright i dont care i just want to be wanted and for people to talk to me and be nice to me
of course i am romancing romance why do you think its called romance thats what romance is for, love transcends everything if you let it, love is the greatest force in the universe, theres this whole other world of experiences out there that i am just not privy to ive got all this skin that nobody has ever touched. if a woman gently caressed my thigh she could then stick a knife through my heart and that would be alright
Yeah, the only existing third spaces nowadays seem to be digital. Atomization of the working class is very real, and has very real impacts on social networking. All the people who want to interact with more people are moving to spaces like discord or places like this website. It sucks, but at some level you just have to roll with the times. I personally hate discord, but I still have it specifically for those third spaces.
And I'm not saying there's anything abnormal about romanticizing romance, I'm just saying that waiting for the right person is worth it. The wrong person will absolutely ruin your life and you'll just be addicted to it. Other people may have relationships, but there's no speaking on how healthy or unhealthy their relationships may be.
Something I will say though is that you gotta chill out on defending incels, because it makes you seem like an incel and that will turn people away from you. You don't have to ridicule them, but playing defense for them is a really bad look to say the least. Just try to be chill and try to appreciate people for who they are, and people will appreciate that you do that. Being nice and helpful are super attractive traits that will boost your self esteem and get you far.
this cannot be life. this cannot be the life i have to live. i have maybe 70 to 80 years on this earth and i need to put all of my existing into that time and a single second together with a friend is worth more than a thousand hours on discord. i want to be able to touch my friends, i want to smell them, i want to hold them, i want to feel them fill the room. i want to see them with my own eyes, without interruption and delay, without translation, i want to shout with them and sing with them and dance with them and make music with them and the world just doesn't want me to and there are people who can do this so why can't i what the fuck is wrong with me. why am i neither a person who can just live online nor someone who can just live offline
i feel for the incel because never feeling desired will break your spirit and your heart and your body and your soul. i obviously don't defend incels in real life, but i genuinely think the way people write about these things on here is wrong and disgusting and just as wrong-headed as the way incels talk.
i am chill and appreciate people, i live a genuine life and have hobbies and friends and i go out sometimes and im nice an helpful. if you saw me in a group of people you couldn't pick me out (i think). this has not gotten me far. in fact it has gotten me absolutely nowhere. im just as much of a virgin as i was ten years ago and believe me ive become a much more genuine and nice and helpful and interesting and interested person in that time and i treat everybody with respect and interest and all i want is someone to hold me and to say they want me and that they want to spend time with me and that has never happened and the whole weight of the world lies on me and there's nothing beneath me but an endless abyss and if i die without ever having received love then that would be a fate infinitely worse than never having lived at all. life with love is everything and life without love is nothing
I think you’re putting too much emphasize on romance. Years ago before I transitioned, I sought a lot of validation through romantic relationships. All it did was make me more desperate and anxious.
After I started my transition, I put romantic pursuit on the back-burner and focused solely on myself. I focused on the goals and desires I could obtain on my own, and that’s given me a stable foundation in my life.
Without that foundation, I would still be continuing to seek emotionally co-dependent relationships, and that’s where you are right now.
Even if you’re not trans, you should step back and focus on your identity for the time being.
Who are you? Who do you want to be? Do those two people align and if not, what can you do to make it so? What goals and aspirations do you have?
Once you figure out the answers to these questions, then you can start to figure out what kind of people you want to surround yourself with and be able to ask yourself a different set of questions:
What kind of people do you want in your life? How does having them around improve your life? How does them having you around improve their life, and how would being in each other’s lives improve things for the both of you?
I've focused on myself for my entire life. I've become a genuine authentic person with interests hobbies passions. The only things I haven't been able to do was become integrated in a community (they just don't exist anymore) or exploit my life for money. I don't have money. My goals and aspirations are to not become another cog in the machine, to not be broken down by capitalism, to not exploit my existence for cold cash. Sadly that's not very attractive to woman, who are smarter than me who know that you can't live without money and that it sucks to be poor and that it's better to live inauthentic fake easy lives that real authentic hard lives
We can give you all the advice we can, but at the end of the day the best course of action you can take would be to see a therapist. You have a lot of shit holding you back from a fulfilling life that isn’t being single, and you need a professional who can help guide you in untangling your web of trauma and insecurities.
Have you ever been in a romantic relationship? Have you ever felt desired? If you have you cannot feel my pain. You cannot even begin to comprehend it. There's a giant hole within me and nothing but being desired can fix it because I'm a normal human being with normal human being needs
I have been in relationships and they were emotionally unfulfilling and caused my emotions to spiral out of control. And that’s because I expected too much of them. I expected them to fill the void inside of me, but that is an unfair burden to place upon others.
But I’ve gotten myself to a point where I’m content being single, and a romantic relationship would just be an added bonus. And while I don’t have a romantic partner, I have a best friend who’s more important to me than any romantic partner I’ve ever been with.
So you have been desired? So you have had someone who wanted to be next to you when you went to sleep and wanted to be next to you as you woke up. Nobody ever wanted to do that with me. Yes, I would much rather have a relationship that made my feeling spiral out of control than not have one and have my emotions spiral out of control anyway like they are doing right now. I don't want to be single. I've been single thirty years. I don't want to be alone, I'll have enough time to be alone when I'm dead.
I want someone to fill my void and to fill someone else's void.
I'd give the entire fucking world for a little bit of tenderness.
A relationship isn’t something you can achieve through desperation. The harder you try the more frustrating it will be and then when the right person finally comes along, someone you genuinely could click with, your insecurities and weaknesses will be cranked up to the max and will be on full display. You’ll end up sabotaging yourself.
Put the romance on the back burner. Delete all your dating apps, they’re designed to bring you despair. Join some clubs, or find a job that allows you to maximize contact with other people. Make some friends. And eventually you’ll find someone who makes you happy.
there was a woman who had interest in me ten years ago since then nothing even at my most social times i have many friends but most have moved away
I had a dream where I kissed a woman a few days back oh boy was that fun I wish I had never woken up
I think you're making a very dangerous conflation here. Yes, there are lazy assholes on the board who like punching down at miserable mentally ill people because ultimately the board is full of shitty people to only a slightly lesser degree than most places, and they fucking love being given permission to designate someone as subhuman if that designated subhuman doesn't have a visible identity they can whip out to say they're one of the good guys because they're also socially minoritized. This leads to attacking a lot of mentally ill people, but woke.
However
"Incel" does not mean miserable loner with mental illness. There are a lot of miserable loners with mental illness who are not incels, and I know that because I'm one of them and have spent many years as one, but I've never called myself an "incel," I don't spend my time on internet boards with nazis ranting about why women should be slaves, as I said before, there's a difference between having a rough time with being mentally ill and unloved and making a political project of hating women and seeking their terror and subjugation.
While it is totally within your capability to stop making this conflation, I don't think it started with you nearly as much as it started with people masking their antisocial attitude towards, uh, let's call them sad virgins by couching it in terms of rightful criticism of the politically heinous project of incels, the way that some "socialists" love going "white women be like" because they want to say "women be like." They just phrase it differently to make their disgusting attitudes palatable to certain other self-styled progressives. My guess (I apologize for using italics to much here) is that you at least intuited this pattern of behavior but just drew a poor conclusion from it by letting those "fake woke" assholes convince you that you and incels have common cause when that could not be farther from the truth.
[In reference to some of your other comments] I've known guys like you who let the not getting laid thing develop into an obsession and have had such an obsession myself a long time ago. I can't really help you with that, I couldn't help the other guys and I myself only really understood how ridiculous that attitude is after I spent some time in a relationship, so I didn't really need to outgrow it. I'm lonely again now and have been for years, but my experience tells me that fucking wouldn't somehow make me whole and it's not worth obsessing over. I can't transmit that to you, so basically there's just the drop in the bucket as my anecdotal evidence.
I think very few people on this board are going to engage with you constructively on this, so if their being gross is intolerable to you, it's probably not good to keep complaining to them because you're just an other to them. Some people can engage on this and I see one or two have though (e.g. the person who explained the significance of the fact that most people don't like ER).
Edit: I should say that there's also a lot of rightful incel-bashing that doesn't make the conflation that I mentioned, it's just that it can be misconstrued that way if you have already bought into "incel" being a codeword for "miserable loner with mental illness".
So you were in a relationship? Some person told you "I love you" and no matter how short it was for a single faction of your existence you were loved and desired by somebody? Somebody told you "I want to share my life (however brief) with you?" That's all I want, just give me a single second of that and I'll never complain again. It's not about getting laid, it's about being desired. And being desired is a basic normal human need and when that need is not met and has never been met you'll lose your mind.
That's why you grew out of it when you had a relationship.
Sorry for having a mental illness, sorry for being stupid, sorry for being socially inept, sorry for not being a productive worker sorry for not being normal sorry for being born to poor parents who beat me, sorry for not rising above my class, sorry for being not normal, sorry for being such a loser, do I now deserve love?????????
It was a dumb question, but you're failing to answer it because none of this explains why they are chuds if they "don't want to be." I'm an isolated, mentally ill loser who fell through the cracks, but I'd sooner die than join the incels.
I'm not talking about them being or not being communists, and don't give me the "Masses, Elites, and Rebels" lecture. There are lots of other "slipped through the cracks" losers out there who aren't incels, so many that it feels like our society is more crack than surface, and we can quip about there being commonality between incel ideology and liberal ideology, but most of those losers still aren't incels, they still don't make a political project of being hostile to women or anything like that.
Part of that is, if you care about words having meanings, most people aren't chuds, and even among men it's at least contested enough that it's not "the basic mode of living" in most social contexts. As much as we can draw cute connections, the only time you see someone on CNN saying we should repeal the 19th Amendment is if they are wheeling out some internet crank, and the people on CSPAN who do believe it mostly keep it to themselves.
The difference is that these people don't make hating women their personalities and political projects. These 4chan type misogynists are clearly having a different impact on young men than mainstream misogyny. Chris Brown beats women, but he wouldn't celebrate someone like Elliot Rodgers trying to go on a killing spree of women. Incels are developing into terrorism and leaking into mainstream misogyny.
A lot of these people got radicalized into being incels by 4chan, a place where there are communists, albeit reactionary ones, but they had exposure to a lot of the same things that I did and still turned out that way.
Shit, the incel I knew personally even came out as a trans woman for a short amount of time. These people aren't stupid, they understand they have some level of agency over their life, but it's because of dipshits like you giving them the pass to say they have no agency over their life they can pretend they don't.
capitalism goes rampant every single day, worsening conditions for everybody, severing all human connections, but yeah just SELF IMPROVE YOURSELF OUT OF IT JUST GO OUT INTO THE NONEXISTANT SOCIAL FABRIC
I JUST BIT MY HAND TILL IT BLED
Okay, I'm a schizophrenic alcoholic, I have all the excuses in the world to self isolate and hate people. But even when I was drinking up to a gallon of vodka a day, I still had the option of going to meetings, going to therapy, getting on psych meds, being friends with my coworkers, ect. Acting like there's "NOTHING WE CAN DO CAPITALISM RUINED EVERYTHING" is the self defeatist mindset that made me an alcoholic. So your speech is stupid and causing psychic damage to everybody that reads it.
Also to counter you mentioning me getting therapy and other such help is "privilege" I got that for free. There are still programs to get help for free, you just have to actually seek them. They still suck and are clearly held back by capitalism, but they exist. There is no excuse not to work on being a better person for your community and those around you other than not giving a fuck. I learned that from the immigrants I work with in kitchens that have 3 full time jobs and families they still take care of and spend time with.
Why are you implying that homeless people and heroin addicts are at the same level of worth as pedophiles?
That was obviously wrong I'm sorry. It's just that my loneliness obviously doesn't stem from my lack of status or from my poverty since even people mich lower on the social ladder have a romantic life which means all my problems are my own fault and I should feel ashamed for having them which is what I meant to write sorry I was having a panic attack
Not all your problems are your fault, but they are your responsibility to deal with. That's the first thing I learned when I was in rehab. It's not my fault I'm an addict, that's a disease that's entirely out of my control. It's not my fault I'm schizophrenic. But it is my responsibility to manage the issues that arise with those conditions.
In the same vain, it's not necessarily your fault that you have a hard time socializing with other people, but it is your responsibility to manage those issues.