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WHY AM I EVEN AWARE OF ONE OF YOUR (NOT EVEN) MAYORS?? WAS RATBOY NOT ENOUGH??

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[-] RedWizard@hexbear.net 53 points 1 day ago

Uh oh, did popular ideas turn from quantitative into qualitative and produce a platform and a candidate that aims to embody those popular ideas? In the largest city in the country? Now spilling out into Minneapolis? Better get big fucking mad about it!

[-] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 65 points 1 day ago

You'd think they'd save their "I told you so"s until after he gets elected and ends up being another do nothing politician, but they seem really determined to make sure that people who are trying to do something are Doing Things The Wrong Way, while not actively working towards the One True Correct Way to Do Things.

This is a positive for the left, if he is actually left wing and actively helps build a leftist base in the US, that is fantastic, if not (which I think is more likely) then leftists have a great point of agitation, and can point out the problems with trying to work within the system vs challenging it directly. This is a win/win situation for people, as long as they go outside and actually talk to people, even for those of us in other countries who hear about him, it's still useful for agitprop, because like it or not, US news is constantly being broadcast everywhere else.

[-] RedWizard@hexbear.net 53 points 1 day ago

One of the net results of the failure of the Bernie Sanders campaign was the radicalization of his base. It radicalized his base in both directions, and you can trace the history of some people's right-wing and left-wing growth to the collapse of his campaign. His campaign brought a critique to the masses that really hadn't existed for more than a generation. You can see the sentiment growing with the frequency of crises. 9/11 and the War in Iraq, the 2008 housing crisis, the rise and fall of Sanders, the Trump presidency, COVID, the fully botched and bungled Democratic Party presidential campaign coupled with Palestine, on top of another Trump presidency. Each crisis is like breaking a pinata full of minds looking for answers and ideologues scrambling to scoop them up and provide those answers. People who were not "political" before Mamdani will become "political" because of Mamdani. The people working in his campaign (nearly 30,000 canvassers alone) will be exposed to organizing, become political agents, and will likely adopt some of his perspective or maybe join the DSA. From my reading, the campaign made the bar extremely low for people who wanted to participate, allowing for people to give as much or as little time as they could, on their own schedule. These are valuable lessons to be learned from his early success. Most of his canvassers are young, early to mid-20s, and Sanders failure was 9 years ago. The people energized by Mamdani (who was 26 when the Sanders campaign fell apart) could develop similarly to Mamdani but at a more accelerated pace, given the existing development already; these are objectively good things; this is the result of these qualitative changes.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

This is still quantitative change within the Democratic Party and has yet to become qualitative change of a workers' party.

But, that's not a reason to oppose quantitative change, so I'll still take his success as a good sign. We're not there yet, we're getting there!

[-] RedWizard@hexbear.net 11 points 1 day ago

I fully agree.

[-] XxFemboy_Stalin_420_69xX@hexbear.net 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

if he were really the type to risk his life and do something good once he's in office, he wouldnt be on the cover of time magazine

fell-for-it-again-award

[-] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 68 points 1 day ago

I'll be sure to let this guy know:

[-] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 7 points 1 day ago

Yeah, this Mamdani guy is definitely comparable to Stalin lol

[-] Jabril@hexbear.net 2 points 20 hours ago

Pretty sure the first time he was featured it was a hit piece against him being a "dictator," and the second one was just saying "good thing Russia took the brunt of Hitler's attacks or else Hitler would have won," not really big praise or anything positive.

[-] LangleyDominos@hexbear.net 38 points 1 day ago

This meme has Focault Boomerang'd us. It was created to dunk on Trump voters. Now the only time it's posted is to dunk on other Hexbears.

[-] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 48 points 1 day ago

It's also an awful and incorrect use of it, because I haven't seen anyone saying that Mamdani being elected will magically create socialism, I've seen people saying that this is an opportunity that we can use, that this will radicalise people. So we have fallen for the idea that...we should agitate and educate and use favourable material conditions to do so? Jokes on us I guess, much better to sit in our rooms and do nothing, that'll certainly move us closer towards a socialist future.

[-] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 36 points 1 day ago

he is not the revolution, nobody here thinks he is. it is very strange when the zealous anti-electoralists act like we think he's going to kill some billionaires or has to have "death to cops" as a slogan to pass some purity test.

[-] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 38 points 1 day ago

Yeah, like his goal is to win an election, not an internet leftist purity contest, of course he is going to brown-nose and not actively do anything that would just get his car bombed by the cops. I don't think electoralism is an effective strategy, but the idea that it means that every single person who tries to win any election at any point is an active impediment to the left is absurd. Electoralism isn't a strategy to achieve socialism, but it is a tool and opportunity that we can use to further our goals. It doesn't siphon away revolutionary energy, it creates it, because people start to think that things can change, and then when the system refuses to change, people will start to look for ways to change things outside of the system.

I do wonder how many people here moved to the left because of an electoral event either in their country or in the US. I would imagine it would be quite a few, I doubt anyone here spawned fully formed from the ether as the One True Leftist.

[-] Le_Wokisme@hexbear.net 30 points 1 day ago

don't think electoralism is an effective strategy,

i don't think it's effective for overthrowing the empire or achieving communism. i think it's potentially effective for things that are within the scope and purview of local government like public housing and freezing police budgets.

[-] Damarcusart@hexbear.net 23 points 1 day ago

It certainly can be effective at slowing down the amount of pain and suffering under capital people have. But it does depend on circumstances. From what I know about New York, Mamdani probably won't actually be able to make any noticable change in those areas because he will be sabotaged at every opportunity. But fuck being a doomer about things, just because I think he won't make effective change doesn't mean I don't want to see it. It would be great if he successfully reduce cop budgets and put in rent controls, that will help potentially millions of people.

[-] RedWizard@hexbear.net 13 points 1 day ago

I don't think electoralism is an effective strategy,

It depends on what your goals are with electoralism, and it depends on if electoralism is still something fallowed by the masses and still guides their political development. I feel the need to quote Lenin at length here:

In the first place, contrary to the opinion of such outstanding political leaders as Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht, the German "Lefts", as we know, considered parliamentarianism "politically obsolete" even in January 1919. We know that the "Lefts" were mistaken. This fact alone utterly destroys, at a single stroke, the proposition that parliamentarianism is "politically obsolete". It is for the "Lefts" to prove why their error, indisputable at that time, is no longer an error. They do not and cannot produce even a shred of proof. A political party's attitude towards its own mistakes is one of the most important and surest ways of judging how earnest the party is and how it fulfils in practice its obligations towards its class and the working people. Frankly acknowledging a mistake, ascertaining the reasons for it, analysing the conditions that have led up to it, and thrashing out the means of its rectification---that is the hallmark of a serious party; that is how it should perform its duties, and how it should educate and train its class, and then the masses. By failing to fulfil this duty and give the utmost attention and consideration to the study of their patent error, the "Lefts" in Germany (and in Holland) have proved that they are not a party of a class, but a circle, not a party of the masses, but a group of intellectualists and of a few workers who ape the worst features of intellectualism.

Second, in the same pamphlet of the Frankfurt group of "Lefts", which we have already cited in detail, we read:

". . . The millions of workers who still follow the policy of the Centre [the Catholic 'Centre' Party] are counter-revolutionary. The rural proletarians provide the legions of counter-revolutionary troops." (Page 3 of the pamphlet.)

Everything goes to show that this statement is far too sweeping and exaggerated. But the basic fact set forth here is incontrovertible, and its acknowledgment by the "Lefts" is particularly clear evidence of their mistake. How can one say that "parliamentarianism is politically obsolete", when "millions" and "legions" of proletarians are not only still in favour of parliamentarianism in general, but are downright "counter-revolutionary"!? It is obvious that parliamentarianism in Germany is not yet politically obsolete. It is obvious that the "Lefts" in Germany have mistaken their desire, their politico-ideological attitude, for objective reality. That is a most dangerous mistake for revolutionaries to make. In Russia---where, over a particularly long period and in particularly varied forms, the most brutal and savage yoke of tsarism produced revolutionaries of diverse shades, revolutionaries who displayed amazing devotion, enthusiasm, heroism and will power---in Russia we have observed this mistake of the revolutionaries at very close quarters; we have studied it very attentively and have a first-hand knowledge of it; that is why we can also see it especially clearly in others. Parliamentarianism is of course "politically obsolete" to the Communists in Germany; but---and that is the whole point---we must not regard what is obsolete to us as something obsolete to a class, to the masses. Here again we find that the "Lefts" do not know how to reason, do not know how to act as the party of a class, as the party of the masses. You must not sink to the level of the masses, to the level of the backward strata of the class. That is incontestable. You must tell them the bitter truth. You are in duty bound to call their bourgeois-democratic and parliamentary prejudices what they are---prejudices. But at the same time you must soberly follow the actual state of the class-consciousness and preparedness of the entire class (not only of its communist vanguard), and of all the working people (not only of their advanced elements).

Even if only a fairly large minority of the industrial workers, and not "millions" and "legions", follow the lead of the Catholic clergy---and a similar minority of rural workers follow the landowners and kulaks (Grossbauern)---it undoubtedly signifies that parliamentarianism in Germany has not yet politically outlived itself, that participation in parliamentary elections and in the struggle on the parliamentary rostrum is obligatory on the party of the revolutionary proletariat specifically for the purpose of educating the backward strata of its own class, and for the purpose of awakening and enlightening the undeveloped, downtrodden and ignorant rural masses. Whilst you lack the strength to do away with bourgeois parliaments and every other type of reactionary institution, you must work within them because it is there that you will still find workers who are duped by the priests and stultified by the conditions of rural life; otherwise you risk turning into nothing but windbags.

Third, the "Left" Communists have a great deal to say in praise of us Bolsheviks. One sometimes feels like telling them to praise us less and to try to get a better knowledge of the Bolsheviks' tactics. We took part in the elections to the Constituent Assembly, the Russian bourgeois parliament in September--November 1917. Were our tactics correct or not? If not, then this should be clearly stated and proved, for it is necessary in evolving the correct tactics for international communism. If they were correct, then certain conclusions must be drawn. Of course, there can be no question of placing conditions in Russia on a par with conditions in Western Europe. But as regards the particular question of the meaning of the concept that "parliamentarianism has become politically obsolete", due account should be taken of our experience, for unless concrete experience is taken into account such concepts very easily turn into empty phrases. In September--November 1917, did we, the Russian Bolsheviks, not have more right than any Western Communists to consider that parliamentarianism was politically obsolete in Russia? Of course we did, for the point is not whether bourgeois parliaments have existed for a long time or a short time, but how far the masses of the working people are prepared (ideologically, politically and practically) to accept the Soviet system and to dissolve the bourgeois-democratic parliament (or allow it to be dissolved). It is an absolutely incontestable and fully established historical fact that, in September--November 1917, the urban working class and the soldiers and peasants of Russia were, because of a number of special conditions, exceptionally well prepared to accept the Soviet system and to disband the most democratic of bourgeois parliaments. Nevertheless, the Bolsheviks did not boycott the Constituent Assembly, but took part in the elections both before and after the proletariat conquered political power. That these elections yielded exceedingly valuable (and to the proletariat, highly useful) political results has, I make bold to hope, been proved by me in the above-mentioned article, which analyses in detail the returns of the elections to the Constituent Assembly in Russia.

The conclusion which follows from this is absolutely incontrovertible: it has been proved that, far from causing harm to the revolutionary proletariat, participation in a bourgeois-democratic parliament, even a few weeks before the victory of a Soviet republic and even after such a victory, actually helps that proletariat to prove to the backward masses why such parliaments deserve to be done away with; it facilitates their successful dissolution, and helps to make bourgeois parliamentarianism "politically obsolete". To ignore this experience, while at the same time claiming affiliation to the Communist International, which must work out its tactics internationally (not as narrow or exclusively national tactics, but as international tactics), means committing a gross error and actually abandoning internationalism in deed, while recognising it in word.

Now, I'm not implying that this is the tactic Mamdani is employing here, but you can see at least that Lenin recognized the power of these institutions and structures as a means of agitation and education of the masses. It could be that Mamdani's campaign has a similar net result of acting as a means of political education. This tactic obviously is intended to be employed by an independent working-class party and not as a means of infiltration into an existing party. Regardless, I can't imagine the people working on his campaign walking away with less class consciousness than when they arrived.

The whole chapter from “Left-Wing” Communism: an Infantile Disorder is worth reading.

[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 9 points 1 day ago

I don't think electoralism is an effective strategy, but the idea that it means that every single person who tries to win any election at any point is an active impediment to the left is absurd.

Mamdani's approach to elections is not the only one. I don't think a single one of his detractors here would oppose someone running third party, or even running as a (D) but being very clear that the Democratic Party as a whole is beyond reform, which is the opposite of what Mamdani has said.

[-] ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net 3 points 1 day ago

If he said that now he'd just be opening himself up for attacks from Cuomo and the media

On the other hand if he waits and the democrats run another centrist loser he can just withhold his endorsement and watch them squirm

[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 6 points 1 day ago

God forbid Cuomo and the media attack him; they've been so even-handed and not platforming people calling him a jihadist so far.

"But this would be a stronger attack"

Would it? Look how Dems have totally capitulated to Trump. Even if it's not the consensus already, it's not a difficult argument to make. Refusing to step beyond where people are currently at to agitate in a positive direction is tailism.

On the other hand if he waits and the democrats run another centrist loser he can just withhold his endorsement and watch them squirm

This is the approach of a reformist, and a lazy one at that. As a Dem, insofar as other politicians are meaningfully in his purview to endorse or not, he should be hammering his opposition to whatever center-right lanyard he comes across. Then he can at least be an active reformist, and perhaps one day he'll do what Corbyn is doing now, but I think he has already demonstrated that he doesn't have the spine to break from the party ("Do you condemn 'Globalize the Intifada'?" is a much lower bar and he capitulated).

[-] ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net 4 points 1 day ago

"Do you condemn 'Globalize the Intifada'?" is a much lower bar and he capitulated

He didn't condemn the phrase so I don't see how that capitulation, at worst he sidestepped the issue

[-] purpleworm@hexbear.net 4 points 22 hours ago

He eventually said that he would discourage people from using the phrase after doing like 20 interviews where people badgered him and he maintained his position (which was a reasonable sidestep that he just wasn't concerned with others saying it).

this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2025
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