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this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2024
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Lemmy Shitpost
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Given how the libs here so readily resort to the unfalsifiable, ad hominem conspiracy theory of accusing anyone who disagrees with them of being a Russian bot, it's wild to think that there are places they see as even more filled with Russian bots.
My eyes glazed over as soon as you said libs.
Mine did as soon as I saw Lemmy.ml
They're so predictable it's a meme at this point. Shame though, good communities and some good people on .ml I have to proceed on a case by case with them
You don't need to tell me that .world'ers don't like critiques of capitalism/liberalism.
Word "libs" in first 5 words, opinion rejected
Capitalism fan detected, opinion discarded.
Didn't mention capitalism, and I consider myself a socialist, but go off
You consider yourself a socialist but don't like people criticizing liberals? Do words mean things? Liberal means you support capitalism.
Criticising liberal policy is absolutely reasonable
Using "the libs" as a catch-all term for "anyone I disagree with" is the marker of an incoming terrible take
I don't use it that way. There are plenty of people I disagree with who aren't libs. But in this case I was talking about a specific group of conspiracy theorists who are active on Lemmy who are, general speaking, libs.
"generally speaking" as in "I pulled this stat out of my ass"
Calling you a russian bot isn't exactly a liberal policy, is it?
If your reasoning for determining someone is "a lib" is saying that, then that's exactly how you're using the term.
The fact you immediately assumed I was a capitalist is a pretty compelling argument that you're not good at determining people's ideologies based on their unrelated complaints about your bad takes
This may come as a surprise to you, but there are plenty of people who I disagree with who don't baselessly accuse everyone they disagree with of being Russian bots. There happens to be a shit ton of overlap between liberals and people who subscribe to that particular conspiracy theory.
I called you a supporter of capitalism because you objected to criticism of supporters of capitalism. You can identify how you please, but if you quack, I'm gonna assume you're a duck. Doesn't mean I accuse everyone of being ducks.
Not the person u replied to.
Of course I like criticising actual liberals. I just don't like criticising socialists who don't like to go the tankie way whom u call liberals.
Who said that?
Lemmy.world is a predominantly liberal instance, not a predominantly Socialist instance. Most people here are liberals and just want to reform Capitalism into a healthier version of itself, rather than change Mode of Production to Socialism.
I got called a liberal for wanting to support cooperatives. I got called a liberal for not wanting to participate in an armed socialist revolution.
I've largely seen the word "liberal" being used by tankies to dismiss the opinions of all people that they disagree with.
Did that happen here, or are you projecting that onto others?
As for supporting cooperatives, you'd be a Market Socialist, so not a Communist, but not really liberal either.
As for the question of Reform or Revolution, it's pretty clear by this point that Reform might as well be impossible. Revolutionary Leftists would certainly love reform if it worked, but you can clearly see what happened to Allende the last time a Marxist won democratically. You can even see last night's attempted coup in Bolivia against the Social Democrat Arce.
As such, the majority of Socialists are Revolutionary, so you have more fringe views.
If by "here", u mean lemmy, then yes. They were hexbear ppl.
Socialism is the transitory state to communism. I believe in the communist utopia and I believe that this cooperative kind of market socialism will lead us there.
I would disagree there. I would love to explain why, but I'm really tired right now to type much stuff out. Ik it's a cop out. I'm sorry.
Eh... Most socialists where I'm from have such views. MLs are in fact the rarity in my experience offline.
I meant here as in this thread, otherwise your comment wouldn't make sense in context.
Socialism is only a transitional state towards Communism if you restructute the state entirely to eliminate the tendency for Market Economies to liberalize as competing elements monopolize. Coops are good within Capitalism but certainly aren't the road to Communism themselves.
That's fine. If you want to read more, Luxemburg's Reform or Revolution is a great essay on why the vast majority of Socialists and Communists are revolutionary.
You likely live in an area with more liberals than Socialists, so the views of Socialists will trend towards those that fit the nicest with Liberalism, or pose the least danger to the status quo historically. That doesn't make you a liberal, but at a global scale Marxist-Leninists make up the vast majority of leftists.
Additionally, not all revolutionary Socialists are Marxist-Leninists. Anarchists, Ultraleftists, Syndicalists, Council Communists, and many Market Socialists are Revolutionary. Again, reading Luxemburg is a great path to understanding why that is.
I guess you're part of the American right? You see... the right in the US has been fed a steady stream of Russian propaganda through their talking heads for a while now. So the right has become indistinguishable from Russian bots. Sorry for the confusion!
Why on earth would you think I'm on the American right?
Thought "libs" was an American specific term. My apologies.
"Libs" is short for "liberal," meaning a supporter of capitalism. Those on the American right who aren't fascists are generally liberals, though they often don't know what it means. When I criticize liberals, it's from a leftist/anti-capitalist perspective.
Informal, modern society understands it the way you do, the term is just different here on Lemmy lol.
And in the entire rest of the world outside of the US. See the Liberal Democrats of the UK for example. Or, like, formal/academic discussion even within the US. John Locke was a classical liberal, Ronald Reagan was a neoliberal, etc.
It's only informally, when the right started using it as a scare word, that people started using it differently, and that was relatively recent considering the history of the word.
Righto, I have changed my comment to reflect your input.