I would ask you the solution but you don't care if its ever solved and those hard working people get a fair deal.

I guess the best choice then is to just stop going to these places? Like the other guy said, it must be a better idea to simply not give any business to these types of businesses until they die.

Agreed with your point that we just need to stop supporting businesses that use the the tip system. We also need to reward restaurants with our business for moving away from that great depression structure and pay livable wages. If a business can't afford to pay it's employees then that business shouldn't exist. Tip culture these days is just a way for restaurants to advertise less for menu prices. Just raise your prices by 20% and pay that to the server.

Now there is a portion of servers that are against this, because they work in high scale fine dining places where they make more than 80% of other servers in diners and sports bars elsewhere, and that kinda sucks that they'd promote this antiquated system since it works for a select few.

Fucking over the tip staff is going to happen either way. It's just one is a swift off with the head where the other one is a slow bleed.

It's been interesting reading this comment chain because both sides share the same ideology as seems of wanting tipped culture to go away, it's just they have vastly different opinions of how to do so.

Myself? I hate the tip structure as well. I tip for positions that require it so dine in and hair shops basically, but I believe that if everyone stop tipping at once the impact would be far less severe for the worker overall then if people just stopped going there. This is because when people stop going to an establishment there's no clear Direction of why they're no longer going to the establishment, so management may not correlate that with the pay structure of the employee so instead they're going to reduce the hours on the employee while keeping the employee on payroll. On paper this sounds like a good idea, Until you realize that the employee is going to want to go elsewhere but they're not going to want to risk their income Source by going elsewhere, so you now have a part-time employee who wants to find a job but is running into the same issue that people who work at Walmart have where every job out there who's hiring for part-time wanrs open availability(open to close) and instantly by having that original job you're finding yourself lower on the application list then the person who doesn't have a job.

by just everyone refusing to tip, it's very clear that their objecting the Mantra of tipped culture, and it will tell the worker that if they are not happy with the minimum wage that the establishment is willing to pay, that they need to start looking elsewhere, while also not lowering that employees hours due to the fact that customers are still coming to the establishment. The only difference is the employee is now making the minimum wage and the establishment is now paying the full wage no longer being subsidized by the customer.

I believe that everyone just no longer tipping in general is better because the worker while making less an hour (assuming tips make higher than min wage) is still working full shifts while being able to look for a job on the side. Where with everyone no longer going not only is the worker making less because they're not getting the tip money, but they're also working less while being given a lower priority on the application list.

I get what you're saying and I still begrudgingly tip every time unless the service is terrible which is rare. But if people boycott these businesses instead of going and not tipping wouldn't that be just as bad if not worse for service workers than not tipping at all?

For example, if 80 percent of the people who regularly patronize restaurants stopped going, wouldn't a lot of these businesses close resulting in these people losing their jobs entirely? It's not a likely scenario but it's an interesting thought experiment.