How many more "socialists" do you guys need to elect before it stops being a struggle session every damned time (hexbear.net)

submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by Andrzej3K@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

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Do you know how often bourgeois democracies elect "socialists"? Hell, many of them even elect "communists" on the regular. It's normal. Get over it. Please.

EDIT - there are basically two main genres of Mamdani poster, both of which keep scrawling MAMDANI on the wall in their own excrement for different reasons, and they all seem to be assuming I am from the other side lol

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[-] RedSturgeon@hexbear.net 45 points 1 month ago

It's what happens when people lose hope, to meaningfully be able to impact the world around them and it's affairs, so they resort to lambasting their representatives on the internet.

A lot of people think that if talking bad about a leader, in public was made illegal, that it'd be horrible censorship, Liberals cling onto being able to yap like they cling onto nothing else. Oh no my free speech!!

If I was a tyrant I would literally let you guys shit talk me all day and turn it into a theater, because I know you're not going to do anything about it. If I was extra nefarious I'd make you pay for it. Come on $25 to throw a tomato at me, you know it'd sell out marvelously and the media would call me the most humble president of all.

[-] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 42 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Many people on this website hate the Democrats until it's time to believe in a new succdem entryist claiming to be a socialist. Then (for some) the hopium overrides material analysis and historical knowledge. Then the succdem turns out to be an imperialist, as they have for more than a hundred years all over the first world.

Liking Zohran and hating AOC is not the result of coherent analysis. They're two people at two different points on the same trajectory.

[-] MizuTama@hexbear.net 14 points 1 month ago

Liking Zohran and hating AOC is not the result of coherent analysis

I will say there is the odd possibility of them just hoping a social imperialist executive vs legislator can get some of the treats running again to stave off fervor, thus improving their lives for a blip of time even if it otherwise doesn't progress things.

i.e there might be analysis but the analysis is opportunistic in nature. It's why I've joked about it being American first "socialism"

[-] Hyper_red@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago

Constantly yelling about how much you hate AOC and Zohran is not productive and I think most people find it weird. I honestly think communists think more about Zohran and AOC than people who live in NYC

I don't think anyone in this forum actually likes them or think they're going to actually change anything. But the non stop posts about "ERM I WANT IT ON THE RECORD I CALLED IT THAT ZOHRAN IS GONNA BETRAY EVERYONE!!!" is annoying

Its annoying discourse We've already all agreed that Zohran is a demsoc, DSA guy HE RAN ON THAT Nobody ever thought he was anything else

[-] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'm not talking about "most people", just the leftists on here. If people here find it weird that some people really hate succdem imperialists, then IMO that's strange of them. You're right that this post was pointless, but it shouldn't have been controversial. I'd rather not rehash all the old stuff too, we can wait until the next time he says something massively chauvinistic to criticize him and just ignore him in the meantime.

Sadly people on here have and do defend Zohran (this same post about AOC or Bernie would generate zero controversy). Usually "well he's only the mayor so what if he's bad on non-local issues" style arguments.

He's also not a demsoc. He's just another social democrat, and not even a very radical one. People hate on AOC here every time she's brought up and anyone who tried to defend her would rightfully be dismissed. Give it some time and that will likely be the case with Zohran as well.

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[-] microfiche@hexbear.net 41 points 1 month ago

you guys

I sure as fuck didn't elect anyone.

[-] CthulhusIntern@hexbear.net 40 points 1 month ago

People in the third world, whose socialist party actually has multiple seats in parliament and nobody thinks anything of it: waltuh

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 39 points 1 month ago

It's not normal for the US and I still think that's an interesting development.

[-] Hyper_red@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

I think it's good that red scare propaganda is working less and people are less scared of the word socialist

I think it's proof something could happen and proof the working class, especially the youth doesn't have such entrenched red scare propaganda as some people think

Idk whenever I see a dsa demsoc elected I think

"Idk maybe Americans aren't scared of socialism"

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 37 points 1 month ago

This is the most "I'm angry at the news so I'm going to yell at all of you" post I've been present for

[-] RedWizard@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

so-far

[-] MizuTama@hexbear.net 11 points 1 month ago

Very correct lol.

[-] PKMKII@hexbear.net 31 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

When have socialists ever passed over an opportunity to bicker with each other?

[-] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 30 points 1 month ago

I don't even live in NYC so idk why I'm constantly being asked to debate the merits of their new mayor.

[-] towhee@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago

it's the same as when you grow up in a non-US western country and your media becomes saturated with coverage of the US presidential primaries. sometimes I wonder what proportion of citizens of those countries think they can vote for the US president.

[-] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Living in another country is like living in the Roman Empire, while not being a Roman citizen. You get fucked by American politics, but don't have even a symbolic vote. Also a fun fact: Romans had a proto-electoral college with voting being split by tribus and curiae.

[-] puppygirlpets@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago

because this time is going to be different! this time they won't turn out to be the same as the others! ~...please...~

[-] la_tasalana_intissari_mata@hexbear.net 25 points 1 month ago

okay but he was sexy this time trust me it'll work

[-] 30_to_50_Feral_PAWGs@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago

In the Senate? 69. In the House? 420. Until then, strap in.

[-] ghosts@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

Are you really trying to reignite the Mamdani struggle session again or are we talking about someone else?

[-] LeeeroooyJeeenkiiins@hexbear.net 11 points 1 month ago

you already know the answer lol

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[-] AvocadoVapelung@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

the struggle sessions will continue until every hexbear user has been elected to office

[-] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

they could elect joseph stalin as the mayor rn and he would be just as useless

[-] Hyper_red@hexbear.net 7 points 1 month ago

Zohran hasn't even been sworn in yet right.

Doesn't he get sworn in next year.

Isn't Eric Adams still mayor

[-] MizuTama@hexbear.net 12 points 1 month ago

The assertion above is he will be useless once he is in, and Stalin/Lenin/Mao would be just as useless come January if you dropped them in his position and told them their goal was a socialist mayorality.

[-] Hyper_red@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago

Its wild to me that people expect one congress person or one mayor or whatever to lead the fucking workers vanguard.

They want big man theory but with AOC and when that doesn't happen they get mad that AOC didn't fulfil their fantasy of participating in the workers vanguard

[-] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 24 points 1 month ago

They want big man theory but with AOC and when that doesn't happen they get mad that AOC didn't fulfil their fantasy of participating in the workers vanguard

This is a strawman. Most people complaining are just tired of seeing praise heaped on imperialist social democrats because they're American and they claim to be socialists.

[-] MizuTama@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yeah but the person above is arguing directly against that, saying no great man could save this.

Some do have that reasoning, and they are people being disillusioned from their liberalism. Others are tired of what they see as the praising of blatant opportunism.

I.e some want a great person to rise up and create the party and are upset when betrayed, and others are tired of seeing, "the Mensheviks are the way!"

But this topic doesn't just concern the "Great Man" when these debates pop up, as this often is the result of genuine organizating efforts. If a Mamdani administration doesn't do much to advance a socialist cause, harms it, etc. that is thousands who spent months of effort backing an opportunist cause instead of something that may actually advance struggle, and desiring to prevent that in anyway is obvious. Not every critic is productive of course, but it is something worth struggling over as it is a fundamental question of tactics.

[-] TreadOnMe@hexbear.net 16 points 1 month ago

Idk, how many 'socialists' immediately use their new-found position to undermine the international position of the organization that raises them up? The reason third world communist elected people are pretty non-controversial is because they don't tend to do that.

[-] LeeeroooyJeeenkiiins@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago

it'll stop being a struggle session once people realize nobody is ever going to be elected to be the second coming of Lenin

[-] SickSemper@hexbear.net 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

“Second coming of Lenin” is always a strawman, stand-in for “don’t behave exactly like every other democrat, don’t hire fascists, don’t vote for defensive weapons to israel” etc

[-] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago

I'm tired of hearing about the imperialist mayor, and I'm almost as tired of hearing stawmans like this in defense of the imperialist mayor.

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[-] Hyper_red@hexbear.net 7 points 1 month ago

I think a lot of people just like complaining and would rather complain about the dsa types than trump.

Which I don't get, like yeah zohran isn't gonna do communism nobody fucking thought that.

But like at least put this energy into attacking trump?

Idk it's weird

[-] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

But like at least put this energy into attacking trump?

Attacking trump does nothing, at least there's a possibility DSA people can improve. Some of them are even actual radicals already, although they're a minority.

[-] MizuTama@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yeah, basically this. Most data suggests a large portion of Americans aren't exactly big on trump. Criticizing him is good small talk— or agitation with specific issues—but isn't a tactical question. If you convince a DSA type that no social-chauvinism isn't the path forward then you have someone who touches grass and talks to people doing it to build worker power instead of just canvas for a social-imperialist.

[-] MizuTama@hexbear.net 7 points 1 month ago

Counterpoints:

DSA types actually occasionally read and have chapter adjustments and realignments from these complaints
The types of complaints we levy about Trump types and the solutions to that get mods on us for "fedposting" (A shitposter can't be a fed? I thought this was a left space! its tradition!)