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[-] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 87 points 1 year ago

We've known since WWII that armor needs infantry support yet armies keep trying to treat them as stand alone cavalry because that branch of the army still exists. And then they drive them into a city just like you would do with cavalry...

That said. There's a lot of clips here of tanks being hit with RPGs but nothing of a tank actually being destroyed.

This has been an :armchair-emoji: minute. Also we need an armchair emoji

[-] zifnab25@hexbear.net 55 points 1 year ago

We've known since WWII that armor needs infantry support yet armies keep trying to treat them as stand alone cavalry because that branch of the army still exists.

The problem with infantry support is that nobody wants to do that shitty job. They all want to be in the tank. The giant metal beast with a fuck-you cannon keeps you from catching shrapnel in the face or taking a bullet in the neck.

Israelis want to kill for their country, but they don't want to fucking die for it. Commanders know that. So they tell their troops that you can just get into the giant steel box and feel safe while you roll through enemy territory. Nevermind the fact that IEDs make the vehicle decidedly unsafe. You're sure as fuck not going to want to be outside the tank when a big fucking land mine goes off.

There's a lot of clips here of tanks being hit with RPGs but nothing of a tank actually being destroyed.

One more reason everyone wants to be in the fucking tank.

[-] hotcouchguy@hexbear.net 45 points 1 year ago

Extremely America-brained to do "shock and awe" bombing and then send in $6M tanks without infantry support to fight guys with $100 home-made RPGs.

[-] zifnab25@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago

Money isn't an object to a country that gets billions a year to stockpile weapons.

And Israelis consider their lives (particularly their own lives) far more valuable than the $6M hardware they'll lose in the exchange.

[-] Candidate@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago

It's kind of insane that you have people comparing this to Mosul and Fallujah, with a laundry list of things that the US did RIGHT in those clusterfucks compared to what the IDF is doing now.

[-] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

See I have the opposite kind of cowardice, where I would prefer to be outside of and well away from the huge high value target. Just staying on the outside of that survivability onion.

[-] SerLava@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago

I feel that, but I heard that in WWII infantry was just waaaaaay more dangerous than tanking, big percentage differences in how many people got killed

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 33 points 1 year ago

That said. There's a lot of clips here of tanks being hit with RPGs but nothing of a tank actually being destroyed.

I'm fairly sure this is a deliberate choice on the part of both hamas and hezbollah. Both have definitely destroyed Merkavas but neither have released any footage of the aftermath of a hit, only the explosion, nothing further.

I don't know the exact reason they're not releasing more but at this point with so many confirmed kills (by Israel) there must be a reason for it.

[-] TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net 36 points 1 year ago

honestly, considering that Hamas at least is a guerilla force operating out of tunnels against a horrific bombing campaign and a foe with air superiority, their troops probably have to GTFO as fast as they can after any attack. RPG troops don't stick around to see the aftermath of their attack usually, you want to shoot and then immediately retreat to cover or a flanking position in case the tank or its allies return fire.

[-] showmustgo@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago

This was my thought, okay I got some great footage of my tandem and their merkava kissing, I'm outta here b4 someone finds me peeping

[-] anonochronomus@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

The holy doctrine of 'shoot and scoot.'

[-] Ho_Chi_Chungus@hexbear.net 30 points 1 year ago

This has been an :armchair-emoji: minute. Also we need an armchair emoji

https://hexbear.net/post/1003449

[-] TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago

i have to wonder if they DO have infantry support significantly ahead of them, while hamas uses tunnels or just knowledge of the terrain to flank for surprise attacks. Generally a tank has more range than infantry and they try to hang back as much as possible AFAIK, modern infantry tank tactics are a lot different than ww2 infantry and tank tactics. like if i was a tank i'd want to be down the road behind my infantry support in an urban scenario. maybe you would need an engineering/mine clearing vehicle in front in some scenarios but you'd want even more infantry support or other armored vehicles.

another thing i wonder is if these tanks aren't being surprise attacked during noncombat tasks behind the 'frontlines'

[-] SerLava@hexbear.net 24 points 1 year ago

Isn't infantry supposed to be laying in the vicinity of the tanks ready to shoot guys who literally run up to the tanks? I'm not a modern military tactics guy. But I'm pretty sure infantry support doesn't mean the tank just sits somewhere else by itself

[-] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago

In reality they just sit on the tank and hop off when things are sus. Or hide on the other side of the tank.

[-] SerLava@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago

Ah so they would get blasted off the tank by RPGs even if, or especially if, they get intercepted by trophy systems, so they don't wanna go.

[-] TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

you generally don't want to let the enemy get close enough to shoot a tank with an anti tank weapon, let alone run up to it, that's what the infantry is supposed to be preventing. its harder in urban warfare but you generally want to keep as far away as possible from the enemy, especially in terms of western combat doctrine because we generally have superior optics, but in general you want to engage at the maximum useful range of your weapon system. its true that, when not directly being shot at, a lot of soldiers in a lot of militaries will ride on the outside of armored vehicles, but modern explosive reactive armor and trophy systems make that more dangerous these days, and they still ideally dismount and find cover before combat or as soon as it begins at least.

my pet fanfiction/hypothesis is that some of these tanks were part of units that were further away doing something else (like demining or investigating a tunnel entrance or securing a known hostile position) while the tank was providing overwatch, meanwhile hamas fighters use the tunnels to flank to much closer to the tank than expected to make a surprise attack. all of the tanks in the compilations seemed to be stopped or very much slowed down before getting attacked, like they were distracted or busy or something, at least.

[-] SerLava@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Hmm very interesting, Hamas could have even known where to engage them in the front to cause them to put overwatch a certain distance back. The tunnels were SO close its crazy

[-] Zvyozdochka@hexbear.net 69 points 1 year ago

History shows that there are no invincible armies and that there never have been.

palestine-strong

[-] zifnab25@hexbear.net 61 points 1 year ago

Generally speaking, better equipment and training provides an enormous tactical advantage. The Israelis have that in spades.

But they've also got an army full of kids who joined the IDF for self-promotion, for residency, for hooking up with that hot tail posted on the recruitment flier. They're not fighting for survival and they don't want to walk out of this maimed or killed.

The Palestinians have no such delusion, particularly in the wake of the latest bombardments. They're starving. They're desperate. They're mad as hell. Their fight is existential and they've got nothing to lose but their chains.

Vanishingly few IDF soldiers would actually trade their lives for a dozen Palestinians. Quite a few Palestinians would consider it a good death if they could take even one IDF soldier with them. This psychology informs their tactics and their real operating capacity as an occupying force.

[-] Outdoor_Catgirl@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

They also have mandatory conscription. A fair few don't even want to be fighting there(not that they aren't part of a genocidal army)

[-] PorkrollPosadist@hexbear.net 54 points 1 year ago

If it bleeds, we can kill it.

[-] showmustgo@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago

Hell, we'll anthropomorphize something on tracks and kill that too.

[-] Lovely_sombrero@hexbear.net 66 points 1 year ago

These fuckers are so brave, it is unbelievable.

[-] Ho_Chi_Chungus@hexbear.net 39 points 1 year ago

Holy shit that last guy with the rocket launcher. That was fired at a range of what, 50 feet tops? I thought rocket launchers were incapable of even detonating at that short of a range

[-] invo_rt@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think these are homebrew Al-Yassin 105 rounds made in Gaza. There's no reason they can't be made to be armed immediately upon firing. It probably makes sense if you're doing urban combat and engaging at close range.

[-] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 33 points 1 year ago

They could also be modified Chechen War rounds where both sides took off the range restrictions.

[-] gumshoe@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 1 year ago

Is there a decent source to read about that? In a curious :armchair-general: way not a nagging reddity way.

[-] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

Anna Politkovskaya's work is the only one I've read outside internet articles. She's a bit lib, but she was also actually on the ground.

Also she was murdered by...any of a number of contenders, the top one being the FSB or their Chechen counterparts, so she clearly was onto something.

[-] nurjahreszeiten@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

In chechnya it is open knowledge that kadyrov ordered her death. But don't know if it is just an urban myth, source: I'm chechen.

[-] TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net 31 points 1 year ago

i haven't seen the footage and don't know what launcher they use, but warheads for the old soviet RPG-7 often do not have such safety feature. especially if they are using scratch-made or modified/repaired/refitted equipment and munitions.

https://www.quora.com/Does-an-RPG-7-ammunition-have-a-timed-safety-fuze-to-prevent-it-from-exploding-close-to-the-launcher

[-] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago

:armchair-general:

depends on the munition. a lot of them count rotations before arming but there's no law of nature preventing you from making shit that's even more dangerous to the shooter.

[-] nurjahreszeiten@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago

Im no military guy but that is probably true. Im still sure that it made them like lightning ran from the rifles of the Al Qassam brigade.

[-] estii@hexbear.net 37 points 1 year ago

burning in an armoured coffin vs getting cut in half by the trophy system

[-] Nationalgoatism@hexbear.net 33 points 1 year ago

Inshallah gaza becomes a 21st century Stalingrad for the genocidal Zionist forces

[-] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

This gives COD montage vibes in the editing. But in the best way.

[-] HexbearGPT@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

This is beautiful!

One day Israel’s leaders will be tried for their war crimes.

this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2023
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