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[-] MF_COOM@hexbear.net 33 points 2 years ago

I think that's too low a bar to set. Criticizing capitalism is perfectly compatible with liberalism, it even helps support liberalism as a release valve for certain kinds of liberals.

I think to be considered properly left you have to go further and embrace a positive alternative to capitalism (and imperialism).

[-] davel@hexbear.net 31 points 2 years ago

I guess it depends on whether you think being anti-capitalist includes half-measured whinging about it, Walter.

[-] HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net 13 points 2 years ago

criticism isn't the same as outright rejection, but i can see how the definition has room for ambiguity

[-] MF_COOM@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago

But rejection without embracing an alternative isn't really anything, you're not a leftist you're nothing, a nihilist or w/e. There are a ton of educated liberals who would identify as anti-capitalists but don't actually believe in or fight for socialism. When pressed they'll say something like "no system works" or "it's all corrupt", the only thing we have to turn to is despair, etc.

This is what "anti-capitalism" looks like in the imperial core, it's a disengaged philosophical position that puts the subject above all these cringe ideologies.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

This why I prefer using "socialist" instead of "leftist". It filters out shitlibs and cowards

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

The only reason I sometimes don't use the word socialist is that I worry it excludes my ancom comrades.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The only anarchists that would shy away from standing under the banner of socialism aren't allies in the liberation of the human race.

This includes the ultras that compose the fringe threads of the post-left, ancaps and any other "anarcho"-reactionaries dipshits spin up in their heads to try and shape the material world into

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

I've known cool Marxist ancoms that don't use the label socialist because they think it's misleading. Not gonna dismiss them, they're cool and work well with others. Much cooler than some other irl folks that call themselves socialist.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago

There are people that will drape themselves under the mantle of socialism but are complete shitlibs or dirtbags and there are people that knowingly or unknowingly do good socialist work but reject the label.

As far as I'm concerned the latter are allies under the banner of socialism whereas the former should get a swift introduction to the exit door

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Fair enough. My thinking is also in the interests of left unity on this site, which is roughly from typical commies to ancoms.

[-] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

I call myself a communist because that describes me. It's not excluding people to not describe yourself as something you aren't.

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago

I don't mean what I simply call myself. I mean if I'm referring to the group of people that are my comrades (including me). If I say, "we are socialists" I don't want my cool ancom friends to think I'm excluding them or being sectarian.

Basically, I agree that the term, "leftist" is easily abused and not that useful, but I also have reason to not use communist or socialist as a replacement because I still want something a little bit more inclusive. I don't actually have any good substitute, I tend to just describe what tendencies I know are represented.

[-] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago

I'm in ancom country, I'm the ML outlier and they use the term talkie unironically, I'm already doing left unity by working with them and I'm more likely to point out the difference at this point.

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Haha I know the feeling though I'm often around trots and Socdems (I do get commie reprieves though). Also a good number of ancoms that are 95% of the way to ML.

[-] Red_Sunshine_Over_Florida@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I agree with your sentiment. Any wiggle room allows for progressive politicians like warren-snake-green being held up as the alternative by the owners of capital during a crisis to prevent an actual alternative to the oppressive system from gaining any traction. It's really crazy when you think about it, how reformist capitalists like her keep trying the same failed solutions the original Progressives did a century ago with the same results. People who argue breaking up monopolies as a panacea really irk me cause it is has been show to be sisyphean in practice.

[-] axont@hexbear.net 31 points 2 years ago

Yeah except it seems like we can't get a baseline for what capitalism means. Liberals don't believe it's a distinct class system, they use the terms to refer to specific policy or even personality traits rather than an economic framework. To them it just means when a boss is greedy, or when there are fewer regulations. They'll say Sweden is socialist, or one time I had a really pedantic argument with a liberal who says India is socialist because their constitution calls the country a socialist republic (it was a diplomatic gesture towards the USSR).

This is why I'm a proponent of vocally declaring myself a communist. There's no mincing words there. Liberals will call themselves leftists or socialists, but they'll avoid the c-word.

[-] culpritus@hexbear.net 22 points 2 years ago

I've started doing this in person when I feel like it won't get me physically attacked by someone present. It felt kinda awkward at first, but it's much easier for me now. I use socialist or sometimes marxist in most other cases.

[-] axont@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago

Yeah don't get yourself injured or ostracized, but if you're around otherwise normal people or family, we shouldn't hide it. Gotta get that word normalized asap.

The bad part is in America it's sometimes hard to know who's secretly a Qanon obsessive with a concealed firearm. Although after like 15 years of being open about it, I've only been accosted in public a single time: a guy followed me around pointing out the hammer and sickle pin on my bag and shouting at me. Kept saying his dad died fighting communists in Korea. I tried to ignore the guy and he eventually got tired, but it took every bit of restraint not to tell him his dad deserved it.

[-] invo_rt@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago

his dad died fighting communists in Korea

packwatch

[-] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Leftism starts at Marxism. After Marx, social thinking, economic and political analysis, it cannot be what it was before. Marx is inescapable.

Whatever tendency one goes on from there, weather it be anarcho-communism, orthodox Marxism, Marxist Leninism, Maoism, third worldists, Trotskyism, democratic socialism, socialism with Chinese characteristics, Juche, etc, it's all on the left as long as it starts from Marx's critique of capitalism. That's what differentiates leftist anti capitalism from egalitarian/radical liberal anti capitalism.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

"The Left" and "Leftism" are the people and practice of forcing righties to use their left hands 🤘

[-] davel@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago

Two wrongs don’t make a right but three leftists do.

[-] Cherufe@hexbear.net 13 points 2 years ago

Its when the pig poops its own balls

[-] smegforbrains@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago

It's true. But also don't gatekeep...

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 63 points 2 years ago

If you don't gatekeep, liberals will dilute and destroy your movement.

[-] SpiderFarmer@hexbear.net 46 points 2 years ago

A little gatekeeping, as a treat.

[-] SerLava@hexbear.net 32 points 2 years ago

"gatekeeping" is relative and you actually have to spend mental energy to figure out an appropriate amount of gatekeeping for every situation. It's hard

[-] HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

worrying about "gatekeeping" is solely a concern online where the only activities available to us are about image management and identity. In the realm of politics it is always necessary to distinguish between enemies, comrades, and fools.

[-] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

Gatekeep a political ideology? This isn't a Fandom, this is class war. If you're pro capitalist then you're not a leftist in the same way that if you're made of wood and have roots and leaves you're not a moray eel.

[-] Self_Hating_Moid@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago

Leftism is thi gs i put in my ass such as glass jars

this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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