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A representative from the Italian communist party asked Zedong what would happen to Italy in the case of nuclear war. He replied, “Italy doesn’t matter.”
It was true then and it's still true today
Why do you need belt and road if you plan to be usa satellite.
Ukraine war fucked up belt and road grand plan of linking europe to china through land 
The current western libs plan is to shoot everyone on border, make india new exploitation node, and start preparing africa to be the next superexploitation central.
P.s. I should note that against that idea is china being a massive buyer of euroshit themselves, and india being a peasant country cause they didn't do socialism, and so the pain of industrialization is yet to come
Could go through Turkey. But yeah, west is trying to just destroy everything as always.
Why do you need belt and road if you plan to be usa satellite.
They'd be way out on the end of it, so... not a huge loss. I'd be far more concerned if Turkey or Egypt pulled out, as they are central to transportation in the region.
I imagine this is easy to do for a government with very little stake in long-term infrastructure development and a need to score a few quick points among the reactionary "How dare all these Chinese ex-pats move into my neighborhood!" landlord wing of the current governing coalition. But in another five or ten years, they'll be out and a new pro-growth government is going to find BRI more attractive. China will still be rolling out new connections then, and Italians will only have missed out on being early adopters.
The current western libs plan is to shoot everyone on border, make india new exploitation node, and start preparing africa to be the next superexploitation central.
That's certainly the plan. But its becoming increasingly difficult to exploit regions of the globe that are catching up industrially. That's the core threat of the BRICS coalition. The NATO states are running out of cheap labor to buy and rich countries into which they can sell. And efforts to threaten BRICS states only force them closer together, as evidenced by the Ukraine War being the last nail in the coffin for a Sino-Soviet split.
If the American dollar keeps slipping as global reserve currency, its not clear why BRICS states will even need to trade with the western bloc at all. And as countries like Brazil, India, and South Africa pull away from the imperial core, they're going to drag a lot of their neighbors along with them.
But i'mean underlying premise of belt and road is unifying trade in eurasia bypassing sea routing, and making china less vulnerable to the blockade.
Europe seems willing to self-combust by sanctions of that trade and friendshoring usa operations, so chinese trade routes to europe will become less valuable. If i were china i would be hurrying up their double circulation (consumer-driven in lib speak) economy, cause they don't have much time left, and losing billion of customers won't be great
But i'mean underlying premise of belt and road is unifying trade in eurasia bypassing sea routing, and making china less vulnerable to the blockade.
That's definitely one angle. But there's also a ton of underdeveloped territory in the central Asian "silk road" corridor that a Chinese land rail/road network could profitably develop. This isn't just about bypassing sea trade to continue selling to the same old western interests. It is also about turning the smattering of landlocks states into growing, modernized industrial trading partners and allies.
Europe seems willing to self-combust by sanctions of that trade and friendshoring usa operations, so chinese trade routes to europe will become less valuable
Access to the Mediterranian isn't just about access to Europe. You've got all of North Africa to trade with, and if they can recover from centuries of colonial rule there's no reason to believe Tunisia or Algeria cannot be as prosperous and wealthy as Spain or France in the next century. Once you've got rail access to Turkey, you're not constrained by the Suez Canal. You also have the opportunity to trade with the much-more-heavily-developed eastern end of Russia and the Balkans.
I don't think the Chinese central planners are simply giving up on sea trade. They seem heavily enough invested in Singapore, Malaysia, Myanmar, Vietnam, and Indonesia. But they seem fixated on real growth outside the Pacific Rim in a way that the last century of American-lead development was not. Sri Lanka, Kenya, South Africa, Iran, Venezuela, and Peru are getting the kind of attention they never saw during the 20th century.
re:central asia: say hi to pakistan
I mean yes, they do more than just trying to reach europe, they are doing stuff in africa as well, but its more longterm cause africa was for so long mining central. and usa doing fuckery there as well - like in niger: after they kicked out frenchies, usa military mysteriously remained there and usa told them they are fine with them like 3 days ago
like in niger: after they kicked out frenchies, usa military mysteriously remained there and usa told them they are fine with them like 3 days ago
Biden's frantically trying to force the lid back on the pot in the Middle East atm. I'm not surprised the US State Department signed Niger a day pass on their coup and politely asked to stick around, rather than going in guns blazing. There was an effort by Blinken last month to put together a "Coalition of the Willing" via Nigeria, but it got fierce push-back in the AU and fizzled out. So they don't have many other cards to play.
I more cynically think that usa found a chance to displace france from the west africa, so that euros won't even dream of having independent ressources colonies, and get them from american middleman instead.
North of africa is firmly under eu heel due to refugees concenctrations camps already
usa found a chance to displace france from the west africa
glances at Vietnam Not famously a winning move.
euros won't even dream of having independent ressources colonies, and get them from american middleman instead.
I don't doubt for a second that US economic planners are hoping to bend the European states into full-blown satraps, in the same way they dominated Japan, Mexico, and the Philippines. But I also see a wildfire of fascist movements in Western Europe that would suggest these efforts are doomed to fail. Much like the US tried and failed to colonize Germany during the 30s and ended up ceding half the continent to Russia into the end of the century, the game they're playing in Africa (and, to a lesser degree, the Pacific Rim and Latin America) is predicated locals doing a ton of the work for them. That's giving these areas big nationalist movements that ultimately aren't allied with the US as a whole, just a few Trumpian icons. They simply don't have enough juice to occupy every corner of the world all the time all at once.
North of africa is firmly under eu heel due to refugees concenctrations camps already
North Africa is vomiting up refugees as their municipal and state governments collapse under the weight of the legacy of colonial rule. But to say their under the EU's heel. I don't think they are, in any practical sense. Business interests are abandoning the North African states. Tunisia, in particular, used to be this little corporate beach head for O&G and low-wage industry. But as the infrastructure collapses without a civil government to maintain it, business interests are retreating. Exxon is retreating from Libya. Spanish firms are fleeing Algeria for Morocco at the behest of the Madrid government after inter-state tensions resulted in an Algerian blockade of Spanish trade along their coast. Egypt is being bought out and carved up by the Saudis, while what's left of the English and American presence consolidate further around the Suez Canal.
This doesn't look like firm control at all. We're more likely to see a government out of Riyadh or Moscow or Beijing dictating trade flows south of the Mediterranean in another 50 years than for London or Brussells or even DC to hang on.
If the American dollar keeps slipping as global reserve currency, its not clear why BRICS states will even need to trade with the western bloc at all
The west still exports a ton of technology and the US controls them which is why China had to smuggle and develop their own chip technology. Obviously China can become the new chip leader, but it's unlikely that they'll be able to be completely self sufficient to the point that no one relies on the west.
The west still exports a ton of technology
Even that has been changing. The US hasn't been a net-exporter of processing chips since COVID struck. China is approaching parity with the US (assuming they haven't eclipsed us already) and India isn't far behind. California's position as a tech hub is being eclipsed by its roll in FIRE, which makes sense because that's where all the money's at. The US simply does not reward technological innovation. We outsource that shit.
it's unlikely that they'll be able to be completely self sufficient to the point that no one relies on the west.
It is the western states that are ultimately unable to be self-sufficient. That's why the US is so panicked over Taiwan. Their semiconductor industry is the lynchpin of our tech sector. We can't even make cars when Taiwan Semiconductor misses its production quotas.
The US is not exporting chips, but it controls European countries that export chip technology (manufacturing and embedded parts). They prevented Scandinavian countries (forget which ones) from sending them to China, hence the shock of the breakthrough with their phones a couple months back
it controls European countries that export chip technology
Sure. Because outsourcing is cheaper. But that's also what creates the risk of losing your satraps.
They prevented Scandinavian countries (forget which ones) from sending them to China, hence the shock of the breakthrough with their phones a couple months back
And the Ukraine-Russia war was a big win for NATO in so far as it tightened control over the Scandinavian states. But due to their physical proximity to Russia and their reliance on cheap raw material imports (which the Russians have in droves, but the Southern/Western Europeans don't), this is still a relatively precarious situation. Had the US simply maintained/developed their domestic chip markets, they wouldn't be freaking out every time a war threatens to erupt in the periphery.
I would say that the US firms is far more exposed to the threat of shortages and supply disruptions to critical tech infrastructure than their Chinese (and South Korean) peers.
And to think Italy would be communist without the CIA
Even before the 1946 elections. Before Mussolini's march in Rome, Italy was in it's way to either elect, or by other means, have communist/leftist goverment.
Italians really were robbed.
Like, imagine living in a worker's controlled state on the Mediterranean. When I die, I hope I can go to hell because a rightfully pissed off God sent me to punish Mussolini myself.
“Sorry guys, mom (
) says I can’t play with you anymore.”
Honestly? Good. Go crumble under the weight of your own isolationsim and austerity. The world can move on without fascist Italy.
“It’s now time for a more effective relationship between Italy and China,” said the then prime minister, Giuseppe Conte, in March 2019. During a visit to Rome, the Chinese president, Xi Jinping, was treated like royalty, and the two countries struck commercial deals in a variety of areas, including tourism, food and football.
lol. Their reason is just racism.
I expect to see a lot of "spontaneous and organic" colour revolutions in various potential B&R nations in the coming decades. At some point China will have to accept that the US can and will try to coup every other government in the world before they'd ever let them develop.
(Not saying that Italy was the US's fault, I don't know enough about it to make that claim)
(Not saying that Italy was the US's fault, I don't know enough about it to make that claim)
If not directly, the US was certainly responsible via Gladio
One of the things attractive about China's aid is that much of the time it involves little changes in the receiving government's policies. China is aiding many reactionary and corrupt countries develop. It's going to be pretty difficult to efficiently propagandize leaders and citizens that China is trying to control them when they're not making any strict demands like the US. Of course, the west can always cause instability instead of installing pro-US governments. They can back an idiot who can only see short term and embezzle all the funds to himself and end up getting killed and cause civil wars, or continue funding jihadists and ethnic conflicts; a war torn country that can't take any side is better than one that side with China, and even then the US and Eruope will be the only ones who are enthusiastic about military intervention, so they can take control while China stays far from it.
Yeah, that's exactly my concern. That the US would rather watch the entire world collapse rather than allow these countries to develop in any way.
Italy is 100% our fault :Gladio-shining:
Look, Meloni’s government is far right but people are talking as though Italy had a choice to begin with. Even if Italy had been run by a socialist party, it still doesn’t have a choice.
The war in Ukraine has permanently severed Europe’s economic ties with Eurasia. This is America’s sanctions against Europe. This is America’s disciplining and punishing Europe for even trying something like building the Nord Stream pipelines.
The loss of Russian gas supply has crippled both Germany and Italy’s economies, both of whose manufacturing industries had heavily depended on cheap supply of Russian natural gas. The bombing of Nord Stream pipelines further drove home the fact that America would never allow Europe to break free of its grips.
Europe now lacks energy sovereignty, its fossil fuel supply is controlled by the US, its defense (NATO) is fully dependent on America’s funding, its currency has significantly weakened against the dollar (which is what most commodities are priced in), reducing its capacity to import and transition towards alternative (green) energy systems, and is now on the way towards permanent de-industrialization.
There is quite literally nothing Europe can do to get out of the crisis. If America cuts off energy supply to Europe, it’s game over for them. We are talking about severe economic depression when you have a deficit in fuel and electricity, which further cripples logistics, manufacturing, agriculture and basic infrastructure in the country. The quality of life is going to fall off the cliff if they even dare to think about doing something stupid.
All the far right nationalists in Europe, if they ever win an election in their countries, will find themselves in the same situation as Italy’s Meloni.
People like to make fun of Dark Brandon, but he really is one of the most ruthless presidents out there.
Europeans are supremely cucked. They will blame migrants and Islam as the root cause of their woes and happily bow down every time the POTUS arrives to invite domestic industries to move to the US lol
I know this is not a popular opinion here, but Nord Stream was always a bad idea. They should've spent that money and effort on alternative energy source development instead. Being reliant on fossil fuels is not energy sovereignty no matter what country the fossil fuels come from.
Cheap Russian gas was what allowed German manufacturing to compete with the rest of the world while paying their labor at relatively high wages. It was a significant factor in why post-2009 EU recovered its economy so rapidly.
Without a strong industrial economy, Germany (and the rest of Europe by extension) would never have the means to transition into green energy to begin with.
Nord Stream didn't help at all, though. All it did was let them keep kicking the can further. Again, if you're reliant on a resource from somewhere else, that's not energy sovereignty.
Europe never had energy sovereignty, that’s the point I was making. Without cheap Russian gas, Europe would have been much poorer than it is after the 2009 crash, unless they’re also willing to depress wages. How are they going to invest in green technology if they never had the money in the first place?
Depending on how you look at it, the natural gas is still a far more acceptable molecule for transition to green energy, than coal that Germany is rolling out to spite the Russians these day.
Yeah welcome to Europe. With Nordstream they were dependent on two parties, without it they are wholly dependent on one. How do you think that impacts their bargaining power with the one?
Yeah but now the Europeans are still burning natural gas but LNG which is way more energy intensive to create and transport. Even China, with its massive manufacturing capabilities in renewables and world leading investment still need gas and coal as they transition.
Nordstream wasn't the best option, but what's happening now is certainly worse.
least cringe italian politics moment
Death to America
I can't imagine this bothers China at all... "Thanks for not letting us pour a bunch of resources into a dead-end project!"
Them and Portugal. Did any EU country on board with BRI end up staying?
Austria, Czech Republic, The Baltic States, Greece, Hungary, Luxembourg, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia. Both Spain and Ireland wants to join.
Think they'll stay committed or will they also jump ship once Daddy talks to them?
I can see Slovakia (their PM, Fico, is a socdem who was elected because he promised to stop helping Ukraine and stop doing whatever the West tells them to do) and Austria (which has a neutral foreign policy) staying, maybe Hungary. But the rest will probably leave if the US tells them to.
Imagine ditching a country with expertise in high quality infrastructure and transportation in exchange for a country that builds a tunnel exclusively for a single car brand
i mean had anything actually come of it yet? just 4 years, on the opposite end of the continent?
So this means that they're gonna go whole hog on the U.S's Gas Pipe Extreme Plan
must be really frustrating for the chinese how stupid we are
Considering how many Chinese tourists are visiting Italy, the belt and road initiative might be just to literally protect its own citizen. Bridge literally collapsing killing people, floods every year, football stadium in shambles, traffic congestion, 25% youth unemployment rate, no funding for science, Venice is literally sinking 2mm per year. Every Italian I know is seething about the state of their country, Italy is experiencing massive brain drain with regards to scientists.
Italexit
Time to make Spain join the BRI, build the Atlantropa Dam and drain the Mediterranean to crash Italian coastal cities economy
I wanna see at least one of those really stupid but really impressive projects like Atlantropa done in my lifetime. We need the Northern European Enclosure Dam for no other reason than to fuck over the anglos
Mama Mia!
this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
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