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submitted 10 hours ago by Cammy@hexbear.net to c/neurodiverse@hexbear.net

I'm making a better effort to meditate, but I don't know if I'm doing it right. Focusing on my breathing and releasing thoughts is hard and if I relax too much, I fall asleep.

If you have related issues when meditating, have you found better ways to meditate or alternatives that give you similar results?

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[-] SubstantialNothingness@hexbear.net 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

There's lots of good answers in here: Note it with detached acceptance and then return to the focus, use a mantra as a verbal focus, adding a physical element like walking or yoga, let the thoughts be and observe them as a focus.

Have you tried meditating after exercise? That's one of the few times my mind is particularly calm.

Falling asleep sometimes just happens to some beginners, or it could be an ADHD thing from understimulation. However sloth/torpor is one of the five hindrances so it can also be a real long-term concern for your practice. If this is the case, then it could mean you are either fighting too hard against stimuli like thoughts, or else that you are too complacent and are not exerting enough effort on concentration. Anything anyone has recommended here could potentially help. Generally speaking, you want to make an effort to concentrate but not an effort to dismiss thoughts. If you have a thought that seems important like a task, trust yourself that you'll remember it or that it will come back up if it's important.

And when you find yourself latched onto a thought, don't punish yourself. There's nothing wrong with it - it's part of the process. Recognize it and that you've attached to it, accept that this happens and it's not bad, and let the thought go back on its way down the stream of thoughts.

[-] ThisMachinePostsHog@hexbear.net 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

I have ADHD, autism, and major depression, and meditation has been a fairly powerful tool for me (when I can will myself to use it) when it comes to straightening out my thoughts so my brain isn't a big bowl of stressful spaghetti.

What's worked for me is just allowing the thoughts to race, but not allow myself to interact with them. Eventually, they'll run their course and settle down.

In practice, it kind of looks like this: I'll focus on my breathing, but I won't worry too much about quieting my mind. I only meditate when I'm extremely distraught about something. So naturally, the worries will rise to the surface and try to take over. While I'm focusing on breathing and settling down, the thoughts will come. Money issues, loneliness, responsibilities I'm avoiding, depression, dissatisfaction, etc. I'll allow the thoughts to come into the forefront, and I'll "look" at them. I'll acknowledge them, I'll allow them their space. But I won't let myself to bring them into focus and give them any type of thought. I won't engage with them. I'll just...let them be. Objectively. Once I observe the thought, it'll usually pass by and make room for the next stressful worry to show up.

EVENTUALLY, the majority of the things that are bothering me will have made an appearance. I'll observe each one, and let it pass by. After years of practice, I've learned that the thoughts and worries will run their course and I'll finally have the space to truly focus on my breathing and decompress. After all is said and done, I'm usually left with relatively organized thoughts and I am able to think clearly, without everything swimming around in my head, simultaneously trying to scream at me.

[-] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 3 points 6 hours ago

There's a metaphor that I've heard that may help regarding meditation:

Distracting or intrusive thoughts are like crying babies: they aren't inherently malicious, just in need and trying to get your attention. Trying to scorn or even ignore the crying baby will make it cry louder. Instead, "pick up" the crying baby (allow the intrusive thought to appear) and soothe gently until the crying stops (acknowledge without judgement until the thought drifts off on its own).

That can be part of the meditation, and good practice.

[-] Taster_Of_Treats@hexbear.net 5 points 5 hours ago

When I meditate, I often don't need to do anything with the thought but acknowledge that it's just a thought. It passes on its own if I don't take the bait.

[-] Philosophosphorous@hexbear.net 6 points 7 hours ago

repeating small phrases or mantras in my mind has helped me to calm the linguistic part of my mind. it doesnt really matter which phrase but it might help if you find it personally meaningful and can find a 'rhythm' to think or say the words to. for bodily restlessness consider repetitive or structured full body motions, others have suggested yoga which is likely ideal in a physical health sense, also consider dancing, drumming, or other similar movements as long as you are careful to stretch and avoid repetitive strain injuries etc., plenty of cultures and subcultures have sought altered states of mind through ecstatic practices as well as inhibitory.

[-] Cammy@hexbear.net 2 points 5 hours ago

I'd never considered a dichotomy of ecstatic and inhibitory practices like that. This is wild because I stim sometimes and dance when nobody is around and I just sort of feel my body at peace while in motion.

I think I'll look into mantras, though I saw the clear explanation of 'Aum' in the YouTube video posted here so I think I may try that first.

Thank you!

[-] anarcho_blinkenist@hexbear.net 3 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

I think it's hard because of trying to manage yourself. Don't fixate on trying to "manage" your thoughts


that is an active attaching and engaging with the thought in a way that's counterproductive to what one's usually seeking in meditation. Let them arrive as they do and don't attach to them or attach to the attachings to them, in that endless spiral of infinite fractalized jacob's ladders of connections of thoughts into new thoughts. Seeking to "manage" them is already attaching to them to do something active with them, and then it becomes much more difficult if not impossible to detach from them because it's like trying to throw something from your hand while your fingers are closed around it. Let them run their course passively, and experience what that feels like. If you're fidgeting or you're in pain, just notice it, don't try to manage it.

Just keep practicing. you'll notice that even as the thoughts form in your head and drift in front of your face and begin to branch, if you practice to not attach to them or "try" to do anything with them, they'll attach and build in that fractal way, but more weakly with less "coherence integrity", and the out-branching forms and shapes develop more hazily, and with less defined "ends" with which to keep connecting, and they will eventually become vague or faded and de-cohered enough without your "managing" that it becomes natural to let them float off on their way, out of your space-of-attention. kind of like if you've ever dissociated or spaced out, and sensory input kind of becomes "blurred;" where though you're aware of the presence of things in front of you or sounds or words being made/said, they have no coherent form that is gripping your active conscience and just kind of "happen" while you are there in a vacant state.

For me it kind of feels like that, but with that unfolding spiraling fractal construct of thoughts and feelings. They show up drifting in your face and you just kind of, mentally, with practice, become better at existing in a state comfortable with dissassociating from them, and that infinite-construct drifts from behind your eyes forward, and then moves from your face into the middle distance, as it grows and branches with less and less energy and its ends get blurrier and blurrier, and its forms get less and less descript and conspicuous, and at a certain point, it is blurry and nondescript or insignificant-in-detail enough to allow to pass from your awareness. Almost like happens when you're incredibly tired and slipping in and out of a hypnagognic about-to-fall-asleep state; where your thoughts get incoherent and blurred enough that it's much easier to let them slide by without gripping it because there's not much of significance to grip; you don't feel there is a "reason" to keep engaged with it, because it doesn't speak to or serve anything in your moment.

The more you do this the more comfortable you can become in the space observing your thoughts, and how it feels to be present with them without trying to "control" them.

[-] Cammy@hexbear.net 2 points 5 hours ago

That's fascinating. I can see how my framing of 'managing' is me getting in my own way. I feel like I have to do something with my thoughts or that some thoughts are inherently more valuable than others. I think about wasting time and optimization. It's weird because I think I can see capitalism/ productivity brain.

And that's kind of the goal I started with when making this post. I wanted to meditate, correctly, so I could get my shit together and become more productive. Not to heal, or find a way to relax, or just experience meditation for what it is.

If I'm understanding your comment, meditation is entering a state of mind where one doesn't need to prioritize or focus on any thought. Like it's abolishing the hierarchy of thoughts imposed by one's circumstances?

[-] EelBolshevikism@hexbear.net 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

wtf??? adhd is meditation cheat code???

[-] ristoril_zip@lemmy.zip 17 points 9 hours ago

Be tolerant of yourself. Acknowledge your fidgeting and wandering thoughts. If you try to fight who you are, you're not meditating. Notice the fidget, do your best to quiet it, then get back to meditating. Same with random thoughts.

And sometimes it's just not the right time to meditate. Try again later under different circumstances.

[-] EelBolshevikism@hexbear.net 3 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Meditation as sessions of radical self-acceptance has waaaaay more appeal to me than meditation as a method of ascension or escape from my desires and self. This thread might single handedly get me to start meditating lol

[-] Cammy@hexbear.net 12 points 9 hours ago

Thank you. I think I fixate on doing things incorrectly a lot when that kind of thinking is counterproductive for meditation.

[-] Barx@hexbear.net 2 points 5 hours ago

You mentioned that when you relax to meditate, you fall asleep.

Do you think it may be that you are just low on sleep? It might be good to just let that happen or to try meditating around when it would be okay to fall asleep for the night.

[-] Cammy@hexbear.net 2 points 5 hours ago

I am very low on sleep. I'm bad at it, and I'm starting to improve my sleep hygiene. If meditation as I initially interpreted it gets me to sleep, then maybe that's a useful practice to explore. Thanks!

It's funny, in making this post, I'm hearing people saying it's okay for my body and mind to act the way it does. There's this layer of acceptance that makes me glad I brought this question to hexbear.

[-] InquisitiveApathy@lemm.ee 12 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Even with ADHD I've found that if you can push past the initial fidgetyness you can get a lot of good value from meditation.

If it's really out of the question for you, try yoga. It's basically just meditation + stretching and gives you something to focus your body on in the meantime. There's a lot of good YouTube videos and creators out there to do it for free on your own time and at your own pace.

[-] Cammy@hexbear.net 8 points 9 hours ago

I'll give it another shot. I haven't given a good try in a while and hey, yoga can't hurt.

[-] InquisitiveApathy@lemm.ee 5 points 8 hours ago

It worked for me better than meditation, but everyone is different. If you do go for it, just make sure that the videos are explicitly marked as for beginners because they can end up trying some intense or weird poses you're not ready for otherwise. Personally I liked 'Yoga with Kassandra' when I was learning, but everyone's body is different so shop around a bit of she doesn't vibe with you.

If you're not used to Yoga lingo:

  • Vinyasa(sometimes called by the more general term, Hatha) Yoga is normally what people think of when they think of yoga. It features reasonably quick pose transitions and usually a variety of poses that hit most of your body.
  • Yin Yoga is a lot slower and more meditative. It usually involves passively holding poses for 3-5minutes each and is meant to improve flexibility and joint health. The stretches are longer but can be as intense as you want them to be.
  • Most others types of yoga are quite a bit more specialized or trendy and you should probably stay away from until you're sure it's something you like and want to do.
[-] Frank@hexbear.net 13 points 10 hours ago

I'd try something else that puts in you in a flow state. I have ADHD, sitting around contemplating nothing has never worked for me.

Try walking through the woods, let go of your thoughts, and try to experience everything happening around you without that experience becoming thought. Empty your mind and be aware of the little noises and movements, the colors and shapes, without

[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 hours ago

Second going for walks. I can let my mind spin and when I come back its easier to focus.

[-] Cammy@hexbear.net 3 points 9 hours ago

I'll give that a shot! The weather is cooling down and I've been meaning to be out in the world without my headphones much.

[-] TheDoctor@hexbear.net 8 points 9 hours ago
[-] Cammy@hexbear.net 3 points 5 hours ago

That was incredibly validating. Thank you!

[-] AernaLingus@hexbear.net 6 points 7 hours ago

I was just about to mention Dr. K! The first time I saw meditation that wasn't just "sit in silence with your eyes closed and clear your mind" was when he had wow xQc (one of the most ADHD human beings on the planet) do a meditation where he stood up and raised & lowered his arms in sync with his breathing. Really broadened my view of what meditation could look like, since I'd only ever done the "standard" kind and it never really worked for me.

Haven't seen the video before, but I'll be sure to give it a listen on my next walk! Dr. K is easily one of the best communicators I've ever seen on mental health.

[-] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 3 points 9 hours ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[-] NephewAlphaBravo@hexbear.net 6 points 9 hours ago

Try doing yoga, lighter routines are relaxing too except it's impossible to fall asleep and pretty hard to fidget while holding a pose.

[-] Cammy@hexbear.net 4 points 9 hours ago

That's a good point!

[-] un_mask_me@hexbear.net 5 points 9 hours ago

I can't meditate in the traditional manner, and for me the closest thing is world-building in my head. I basically write a book without the actual writing, and get lost in some imaginary place. It's the closest thing to meditation I've been able to achieve. Not sure if that's technically dissociating or not at this point so take that with a grain of salt.

[-] EelBolshevikism@hexbear.net 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Ok honestly, are we sure art and musing is all that different from regular meditation when you break it down? The difference seems to be that instead of trying to focus on nothing, you're trying to focus on some specific thing or concept or activity, which doesn't seem particularly less "meditation-y" or even less spiritual or healing than "traditional meditation" as long as you're genuinely enraptured in the process or basically not beating yourself up over it or anything

[-] Cammy@hexbear.net 3 points 9 hours ago

I do worldbuilding too. I don't necessarily find the healing I've come to expect from meditation, but that could just be a me thing. I keep trying to do a chill beach or vacation episode but I crave magic and cool swords.

[-] un_mask_me@hexbear.net 2 points 8 hours ago

I feel that craving for magic and cool swords!! I've somehow given myself some really great healing moments with world building where the person I imagined wanting to be able to have a conversation with would say the things I needed to hear ...that sounds crazy and I'm incredibly vulnerable sharing this, but fuck it:

I once had an imagined conversation with a "therapist character" where I said all the things tormenting me (ex: I am an idiot, I am irredeemable, I am worthless) and the therapist character simply argued (ex: No, you're not any of those things, are worthy of love and understanding) and it really weirdly helped with my negative inner monologue. Meditation couldn't really give me that. Sorry for the rambling response, hope it's actually relevant to what you've asked.

[-] Cammy@hexbear.net 1 points 6 hours ago

I really like that. I mean I do the worldbuilding to pass the time or have wish fulfillment to cope with shitty days, but I never really had my characters talk to me about my feelings like that. I was always afraid that would be too cringe. I hate that the idea of being cringe in the privacy of one's own mind can get in the way of a potential avenue for healing.

Thanks for being vulnerable. It makes me feel okay experimenting with a coping strategy.

[-] EelBolshevikism@hexbear.net 3 points 5 hours ago

The first thing the internet user needs to do to start healing is to violently and carnally tear apart their conception of cringe and burn it's concept-corpse so it doesn't come back from the dead

[-] Cammy@hexbear.net 3 points 5 hours ago
this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2024
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