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[-] bigbrowncommie69@hexbear.net 93 points 1 month ago

I don't get why they don't just make these villains self-interested megalomaniacs like the old days. Focus the drama on the protagonist instead.

[-] KoboldKomrade@hexbear.net 84 points 1 month ago

Because a few movies did "tragic villain" decently, audiences liked the switch-up, and the talentless hacks took it to mean that ever villain has to be "complex".

[-] CthulhusIntern@hexbear.net 33 points 1 month ago

Those writers completely miss the point that the best sympathetic villains are the ones where their feelings of anger or other emotions that made them this way are somewhat justified, but the actions they take because of them are definitely not.

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[-] edge@hexbear.net 67 points 1 month ago

self-interested megalomaniacs

So billionaires?

[-] CthulhusIntern@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Lex Luthor is the best comic book supervillain EVAR.

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[-] sharedburdens@hexbear.net 55 points 1 month ago

The villain is the protagonist in most superhero movies, the superheroes are generally the ones maintaining a vague status quo in the antagonist role

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[-] barrbaric@hexbear.net 54 points 1 month ago

Nolan's batman movies did really well and they had more "grounded" villains (well, so long as you ignore scarecrow, ras al ghul, bane, talia al ghul...), so this one tried to follow the same trend. It also apparently brought in Nolan's tory politics and utter contempt for the poor. Remember when Bane stages a people's revolution in Gotham only to then decide he's going to nuke the city for no reason?

[-] MyEyeballStings@hexbear.net 45 points 1 month ago

I was gonna say that they did make Lex Luthor a billionaire tech-bro asshole in the Superman movie, but then I also remembered that his opposition to Superman was out of a commitment to a bizarre interpretation of reddit-atheism, and didn't have anything to do with competing visions of the social good.

[-] TheChemist@hexbear.net 68 points 1 month ago

Perhaps they realized that, late into production, the audience would sympathize. So they added him blowing up the city to make him irredeemable.

[-] ChaosMaterialist@hexbear.net 51 points 1 month ago
[-] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 34 points 1 month ago

Also the Killinger treatment.

[-] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 41 points 1 month ago

did you get Killmonger and dead-motherfucker mixed up?

[-] CloutAtlas@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago
[-] LeZero@hexbear.net 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)
[-] darkcalling@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago

Seems like Magneto is kind of in the same vein too. He seems like a mutant Malcolm X who does heinous shit to justify opposing his otherwise sensible objections to the slow liberal reformism of the X-Men.

[-] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 58 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

He was just committing to the qin-shi-huangdi-fireball "unlimited genocide on the first world" bit because he was terminally online

[-] TheBroodian@hexbear.net 54 points 1 month ago

And then they have him blow up half the city for no reason to make him evil.

Same story with Killmonger in the first Black Panther film.

[-] AcidSmiley@hexbear.net 32 points 1 month ago

Or the Marco Inaros Faction in The Expanse, or Magneto in the old X-Men movies, and so on and so on. It's basically mandatory to have antogonists with a relatable agenda commit acts of cartoonish evil out of nowhere to make it clear that the only answer to injustice is incrementalist fuckery in aliance with macchiavellian ruling class ghouls.

[-] TheLepidopterists@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago

When Magneto betrayed the demutantized Mystique instantly I was so mad.

[-] AcidSmiley@hexbear.net 12 points 1 month ago

Especially because Mystique in the movies had such a strong anti-assimilationist energy. Answering the question why she doesn't always look like a human with "because it shouldn't be necessary", having a literal shapeshifter refuse to obey passing dictates is fucking powerful for me as a trans woman.

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[-] Smeagolicious@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago

Marco Inaros

Yessss... The belt had too many legitimate grievances and reasons to go to war, so Marco has to go full pride obsessed joker mode. At least Drummer, Ashford & co get a couple good belter pirate moments before they join a corporate alliance with empire.

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[-] Tofu_Lewis@hexbear.net 41 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You can definitely tell they they went ... whoops and tacked on the last 30 minutes of the movie to make him seem like the bad guy. The entire film goes into a severe tonal shift.

[-] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 41 points 1 month ago

What if The Riddler was the Zodiac killer, but also a weird incel guy?

[-] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 32 points 1 month ago

Wot if yer dog woz a computah

[-] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 27 points 1 month ago

I'm a computer!

dial-up noises

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[-] AmericaDeserved711@hexbear.net 14 points 1 month ago

in what way was Paul Dano's Riddler an incel?

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[-] thefartographer@lemm.ee 40 points 1 month ago

Fucking looooooove Batman and so badly want there to be a movie where the villain captures Batman and opens his eyes to how wealth dynamic of Gotham is the real driving force behind all the crime.

Bruce learns that the Batman persona was just a veil for him to be recognized as an anonymous hero versus a Nepo baby who is so disconnected from reality that he thinks that building structures and donating them to the poor, destroying infrastructure, beating up the disenfranchised, and terrorizing the commoners of Gotham at their lowest points is benefiting anyone other than Gotham's upper echelons.

So then Batman instead loots all the billionaires, destroys businesses with poor workers' rights, murders a few corrupt figureheads, and then reveals himself to be Bruce Wayne whose cowl was only masking his privilege. Finally, he sells his properties, donates his businesses to the people actually running them, and puts all of his money into trusts that pays every citizen of Gotham a living wage.

The final scene of the movie shows a happy Bruce Wayne, no longer conflicted by his family legacy, clocking in for his shift as a security guard. He hears a commotion and finds a supervisor assaulting their employee and talking about "crunch time until the product meets the investors' standards." Bruce interrupts and starts monologuing while fiddling with a batarang: "You know, I used to use these as a non-lethal deterrent when I was more like you. Back when I punched down on the citizens of Gotham. But now I only punch up. And my weapons got a lot sharper!" Then he murders the fuck out of the boss. Cut to black.

[-] vegeta1@hexbear.net 29 points 1 month ago

In the newer comics gotham is literally cursed. Arkham basement has a portal to hell, a warlock sleeping under there for thoussnds of years cursing the land. Comics have the funniest ways of explaining why people with technology and power that makes them functionally gods would choose to keep the status quo that produces insane criminals. Just say you wanna sell books bruh its alright i-cant

[-] Hexboare@hexbear.net 22 points 1 month ago

"you're about to find out why you don't have basic healthcare"

[-] robinnist@hexbear.net 22 points 1 month ago

The exact opposite of this is Arkham Origins

[-] GenderIsOpSec@hexbear.net 24 points 1 month ago

you didnt enjoy beating up anarchists spouting leftist rhetoric while playing as a rich kid with issues??? smdh

also they want to blow up half of Gotham for.... reasons, too.

fuck that game had some sussy writing disgost

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[-] MaoTheLawn@hexbear.net 18 points 1 month ago

the final scene would be the US army dropping a nuke on Gotham

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[-] MaoTheLawn@hexbear.net 39 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

They need to play Batman like a straight cop next time. Literally just a brutal private security elite, killing anyone and destroying proof of Bill Clinton's crimes aboard the Lolita Express.

[-] TheLepidopterists@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I wanna go the opposite direction. All the villains are billionaires now as well, replace Alfred with a Marx to new!Batman's Engels, have Bruce quote lines from Marxist texts while he beats up the Joker for crimes against the Proletariat.

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[-] Kestrel@hexbear.net 36 points 1 month ago
[-] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 42 points 1 month ago

Really good article. Reminds me of this banger:

Morgana’s ethical awakening, her rejection of the system from which she has previously benefitted, and her identification with the oppressed, is specifically shown to stem from empathy and moral outrage at injustice… and yet, somehow, without any rhyme or reason, when she finally departs Camelot and openly goes over to the other side, she becomes a sadistic psychopath with no regard for the suffering of the innocent, acting from motives of thwarted ambition, petty jealousy and irrational vindictiveness. Her political awakening comes from compassion and simultaneously nullifies that compassion. It couldn’t be clearer: political outrage, no matter how well intentioned, instantly becomes dangerous the moment it steps beyond the boundaries of the state, of the mainstream, of the legal, of reformism, of consensus political normality.

[-] CarbonScored@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

Common Redsails W

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[-] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 36 points 1 month ago
[-] Findom_DeLuise@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago

In the Snyder extended cut, he beefs with Baby Gronk via an exchange of diss tracks

[-] WeedReference420@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago

Also he has a Discord group for some reason

[-] DragonBallZinn@hexbear.net 18 points 1 month ago

I keep saying to any liberals that claim the Joker is about White Male Rage^TM^ is that if it was, then Arthur would have recruited those wall street bros and now here, the Riddler would give white collar criminals a high five.

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this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2024
243 points (99.6% liked)

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