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submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
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[-] VonReposti@feddit.dk 104 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Even worse. 90 in old Danish is "halvfemsindstyve" but it is rarely used today. The "sinds" part is derived from "sinde" means multiplied with but it is not in use in Danish anymore. That leaves halvfems, meaning half to the five (which is not used alone anymore) and tyve meaning twenty (as it still does).

We are in current Danish shortening it to halvfems which actually just means "half to the five" in old Danish (2.5) to say 90. 92 is then "tooghalvfems" (two and half to the five, or 2+2.5). The "sindstyve" part (multiplied with 20) fell out of favour.

So we at least have some rules to the madness. Were just not following them at all anymore.

[-] HorreC@lemmy.world 31 points 2 weeks ago

How did you guys even get to this thought process for saying this sort of thing? Why would you work in fractions for whole numbers in language to start? Is this a monarch thing like they fancied themselves a math wizard so they said it like it was a solution on countdown and others mimicked to keep them happy/sound smart themselves?

[-] VonReposti@feddit.dk 32 points 2 weeks ago

The reason is that the Danish numbering system is based on a vigesimal (base-20) system instead of the decimal system. Why is a good question but it might have been influenced by French during a time where numbers from 50-100 is less frequently used, making them prone to complexity. The fractions simply occur since you need at least one half of twenty (10) to make the change from e.g 50 to 60 in a 20-based system.

[-] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 10 points 2 weeks ago

ancient danes counted with their toes too lmao

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[-] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Little fun-fact: We still have a trace of this left in Norwegian, where the most common way to say "1.5" is not "en og en halv" ("one and a half") but "halvannen" which roughly translates to "half second".

We abandoned the "half third", "half fourth" etc. very long ago (if we ever used them), but "halvannen" just rolls nicely off the tongue.

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[-] ignotum@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago

When I'm in Denmark and have to say 92 I just say "kamelåså"

[-] StThicket@reddthat.com 11 points 2 weeks ago
[-] ignotum@lemmy.world 16 points 2 weeks ago

You just ordered a thousand litres of milk

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[-] Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org 55 points 2 weeks ago

I'm German and our way of counting is genuinely stupid. 121 would translate to "onehundred one and twenty". You'd think it's just a matter of practice but errors related to mixing up digits are statistically more common in German speaking regions. Awesome when it comes to stuff like calculating medication dosages and such. Like it's not a huge issue but it's such an unneccessary layer of confusion.

[-] EddoWagt@feddit.nl 32 points 2 weeks ago

Its so annoying with phone numbers as well, depending how someone pronounces is. My mom always says phone numbers in 2 digits, like 06 12 34 56 78 (06 twelve fourandthirty sixandfifty eightandseventy) and you just get confused because you want to type in the first number pronounced

[-] neatobuilds@lemmy.today 11 points 2 weeks ago

Phone numbers should always be said by individual digits, makes it simpler and faster to type as you're listening

[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

In some languages, pairs work fine.

[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 6 points 2 weeks ago

Surprisingly, even English does it correctly

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[-] llii@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Yes! I'm German and I hate it. It's also very inconvenient when entering numbers into a spreadsheet or something, because you have to know the whole number before you can start typing it.

[-] ECB@feddit.org 12 points 2 weeks ago

As a non-native working in German, the numbers are one of the trickiest parts.

My jobs generally involve a lot of math and discussions of numbers, and I often struggle with swapping numbers around in my head. Especially because when you get to bigger numbers people often switch between (or use a combination of) listing individual digits left-to-right and saying multi-digit numbers.

The though is when you occasionally notice natives mess it up!

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[-] UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev 11 points 2 weeks ago

The older generation in Norway also uses that format. I usually tell them that we aren't under German occupation anymore, so they should use the sensible format.

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[-] atro_city@fedia.io 53 points 2 weeks ago

For a real explanation of this watch this illuminating video.

TL;DW According to the perons, it's based on counting sheep and from base 20. 1 score = 20 sheep. 2 score = 40 sheep.
To get to 50, you have 2.5 score, but they don't say "two and a half". They are quite Germanic and say "halfway to 3" (Germans do this too). So, 50 = half three score.

The video also points out that English has (as the hodgepodge of a language it is) yet another remnant of Germanic languages: 13-19 are not "te(e)n-three to te(e)n-nine", but "three-te(e)n to nine-te(e)n", just like in German "drei-zehn bis neun-zehn".

It's quite easy to mock other languages, but there's always a reason for why things are the way they are. Think of Chesterton's fence.

[-] PlantDadManGuy@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

There's also a reason for imperial measurements, but it's still a worse system than metric.

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[-] Kellamity@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago

I agree with your broader point about linguistics, but Chesterton's fence has never sat right with me. Consider the inverse:

This annoying and unnecessary fence is an inconvenience, but since nobody can remember what it's for, we dare not remove it

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[-] kungen@feddit.nu 7 points 2 weeks ago

there's always a reason for why things are the way they are

Of course, no one is saying that the Danes were so drunk that they simply wanted to make their numbering so much different than everyone else. The problem is that they don't want to change it, probably because "it has always been this way" or something.

Even Norwegian, which was historically more like Danish, changed to using "normal" counting in the 1950s. So it can be done, but Danes seemingly don't want to change, despite the fact it makes their language harder to learn/use.

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[-] StThicket@reddthat.com 42 points 2 weeks ago

Norway used to count like the Germans, but switched after the introduction of the telephone. There were simply too many mistakes when telling the numbers to the operators, that a change was mandated.

Old people might still use the 2+90 variant though, but it is not very common.

[-] brealorg@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

So now you're calling me old? THE NERVE!

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[-] FilthyShrooms@lemmy.world 40 points 2 weeks ago
[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 23 points 2 weeks ago

Ehh, i'm not giving France a pass either.

The answer to 100 - 8 should not be four twenties and a twelve. We're counting, not making change.

French counting is bunk. Way, Way, better then Denmark though apparently

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[-] LocoLobo@lemm.ee 28 points 2 weeks ago

Fun fact, english used to count the same way as german, and it still has the numbers in "reverse" from 13 to 19.

[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 19 points 2 weeks ago

Eleven and twelve kinda are as well. They literally mean "one left" (ain-lif) and "two left" (twa-lif) with the "over ten" being implied.

[-] jaaake@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

I’m 43 years old and this is the first time I’ve seen an explanation of these numbers. Thank you!

[-] sockenklaus@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 weeks ago

German's my first language and I am kinda proficient in english but I never realized that the english numbers 13 to 19 work like like ours...

[-] ooli2@lemm.ee 26 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

French is pretty stupid too. Smart Belgium with french as national tongue only changed that number aberration: They use the made-up word "octante" for eighty and "nonante" for ninety, instead of "quatre-ving" (four-twenty) or "quatre vingt dix" (four-twenty , ten) in proper french

[-] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 38 points 2 weeks ago

What if I told you that all words are made up?

[-] brambc@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

In Belgium we use nonante, not octante, that is, iirc only used in Switzerland. That means we at least don’t use quatre-vingt onze etc.

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[-] Nangijala@feddit.dk 21 points 2 weeks ago

That meme is so lame. 92 in Danish is two and a half fives. The 20 part is old-fashioned and literally nobody has used that since the 1800s.

2 and a half fives' twentieth = outdated cringe. 2 and a half fives = actually how it is said today.

It's still a friggin nightmare to get someone's Phone number verbally, though.

[-] 1337@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago

Not Danish here... Isn't that 12.5?

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[-] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 weeks ago

Quatre-vingt douze isn’t incredibly onerous when you use it in practice.

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[-] frank@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 weeks ago

Ugh okay here's another "Danes shouldn't be allowed to make number stuff":

The time 15:25 is "five minutes before half 4"

"Fem minutter i halv fire"

So you round up to 16 before even halfway, what!?

[-] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

That makes perfect sense to me though. In Swedish we'd say fem i halv fyra. Five minutes to half four.

But in English half four would be short for half past four. I guess.

Counting like the Danish, however, that is an abomination.

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[-] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Bit of a sidenote.

Are the English numbers 11-20 influencer by the base 20 system of french back when we had French speaking royalty? And for some reason they're the only unique "digits" for lack of a better term that survived because once we get to twenty it's a pure base 10 system with a consistent pattern throughout.

I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable than me can tell me if my thinking is correct or not.

Edit: thanks for the history lessons, were interesting to read through.

[-] 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

No, 1-12 are influenced by the old base 12 Germanic/Norse system, which is why -teen starts at thirteen, same as in German (11: elf, 12: zwölf, 13: dreizehn, 14: vierzehn & so on)... The -teen for 1x in english is also a carryover from this, being threeten, fourten, fiveten etc. with only numbers over 20 having their orders reversed - German has something similar with "und" only appearing in numbers over 20. English did historically too, eg. "four and twenty blackbirds".

Base 20 was historically used for large numbers though, eg "four score and seven years" by Abraham Lincoln, which was a poetic way of saying 87 inspired from Psalms 90:10, which says "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away." in the King James Version, which reflects that using base 20 for large numbers (and not just 80) was not uncommon in the 17th century.

[-] Skua@kbin.earth 6 points 2 weeks ago

Seems like they're not, although I get your thought process. If we take Old English (which was English before the Norman conquest) and modern Swedish (since Sweden was never conquered by anyone from France or the Romans) as comparisons, we have

Eleven: OE endleofan, Swedish elva Twelve: OE twelf, Swedish tolv Thirteen: OE threotiene, Swedish tretton Fourteen: OE feowertiene, Swedish fjortun

I think you can see the pattern. These actually all have similar common ancestors going into Proto-Germanic, so they're way older than the French influence on English.

Since other Indo-European languages like German and Russian do the same thing as English where the line between "one word numbers" and "two word numbers" is 20 to 21, I suspect that originates waaaaay back in the history of these languages

[-] CherryBullets@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

French language uses math to speak numbers if anyone is wondering about France.

[-] ryedaft@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 weeks ago

They must have meant 9*10+2 for most of the countries. For French and Danish you would just remember the word for 90 instead of using logic to get there so they are actually quite 90+2.

[-] TheOakTree@lemm.ee 10 points 2 weeks ago

So do you mean to suggest "quatre-vingt-dix" just means 90 and doesn't also mean "four-twenty-ten"?

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[-] sloppychops@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 weeks ago

shakes fist THE DANES!

[-] ap10336@diaspodon.fr 6 points 2 weeks ago

@ObviouslyNotBanana Ninety-two → Nine-ty-two → 9x10+2 :troll:

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this post was submitted on 17 Mar 2025
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