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[-] AmarkuntheGatherer@lemmygrad.ml 130 points 6 months ago

There's another layer here. The DM has full control of the story, there was nothing stopping him from making the occupied people as immoral and the occupiers as righteous as possible.

Meaning zionist fucks have such a warped sense of morality that they can't convince people in a reality they made up.

[-] itappearsthat@hexbear.net 68 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I think there's another layer at work here. Zionists want to believe they still have their humanity and aren't just fascist husks. By benevolently not making their Palistinian proxies a totally racist caricature they jerk themselves off at how fully they are interacting with the "complexity" of the situation. The Last Of Us Part II approach.

[-] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 31 points 6 months ago

I feel like I can easily imagine how the guy might try and concoct a leading situation, but the end goal just comes back to heroic characters ultimately being like "We're not helping your nation do a genocide":

Basically a race of high elves wanting to have a homeland of their own, so they're leaving the Western nations of man to go live far to the South (Israel is just basically South of Europe), in lands their people occupied 3,000 years ago (modern Zionists most likely won't parrot Herzl's open call to colonize). The problem? The land already contains (apologies for what may seem racist; the point is this is how the DM might try and manufacture consent) goblins and orcs who've resided in these lands for the last 1,000 years. They need the players to basically wipe out the inhabitants or terrorize them into leaving so they can begin moving their people from the Western nations to this location. Also the surrounding nations are made up of orcs and goblins, and when this genocide kicks off, they attack and somehow they're the bad guys for trying to intervene in a genocide.

Also a council of lords in the Western nations decided all on their own that this land will go to the high elves, so clearly the land belongs to the high elves. All the races of men and the high elves from the Western nations are clearly the good guys here. Also there are other elves living in these Southern lands, but apparently despite being elves they're barbarians, so the high elves will have to teach them civilization and love of ~~European~~ Western nations of man's arts and music and how to eat like them (apparently European Zionists looked down on Arab Jews as being uncivilized/mentally inferior/barbaric because they wore flipflops, ate with their hands and had no idea or interest in European culture; because there's no escaping the horrific racism of colonialism). Also the enlightened races of men from the West committed a genocide against the high elves so clearly the races of the South owed them territory; it's just basic logic.

[-] ChaosMaterialist@hexbear.net 22 points 6 months ago

but apparently despite being elves they're barbarians

One could also slot in Wood Elves and Nature here. Nature is already viewed as Terra Nullus, ripe for colonization, but naturally (pun intended) the forests/plains/etc don't see it that way. It would make an interesting campaign setting, with lots of very understandable motivations (good and bad), if you weren't a Zionist DM.

[-] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 16 points 6 months ago

Sadly the guys I play with regularly don't really play heroic characters (they're not ACTIVELY trying to play bad people, they'll just basically follow the lead a DM gives them), they'd absolutely go along with helping to colonize an area. Heck, the area doesn't need evil races like orcs and goblins, if I put in wood elves or dwarves but they're not designed as part of a story to get the good guys to switch sides, they'll just go along with it. Unless I actively spell it out that they're supposed to be switching sides, they'll sign up as concentration camp guards and just as part of procedure will shoot down civilians trying to flee and will take it as an intended investigative challenge to root out fantasy equivalent Schindler.

I mean I say they're not actively trying to be bad, but I recall one guy at the table who, when an NPC withheld letters intended for the party in return for them wooing a woman he liked, the guy got angry and tried to find the woman first saying he wanted to scar her to punish the other guy; he compared it to when a child is being a brat and you break his game disc to teach him a lesson. I'm happy to say at least everyone at the table was stunned rather than agree.

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[-] AmarkuntheGatherer@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 6 months ago

You might be right and I can't tell whether such performative tolerance (couldn't find a better antonym to bigotry) is better or worse than mere moral deficiency.

imagine being a DM with the advantage of being the fucking DM, and trying to pull this shit, and still having to quit because you can't accomplish your fucking twisted bullshit. lol. fuck you israel

[-] Adkml@hexbear.net 65 points 6 months ago

You are literally an omnipotent deity and it's still not enough to make Isreal anything but a villian.

[-] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 39 points 6 months ago

Looking at you, Old Testament God.

[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 18 points 6 months ago

NOOOO you can't eat the applerino because.... you just can't ok?!

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[-] edge@hexbear.net 88 points 6 months ago

lmao I’d love to watch a campaign like that. The party consistently doing the right thing while the DM just seethes more and more.

[-] Ericthescruffy@hexbear.net 38 points 6 months ago

It might be fun to watch but in my experience if the players and the DM are that out of sync its gonna be a bad experience for everyone playing cause at some point the DM is gonna be forced to railroad you back on track if only cause they don't have any material in the direction you want to go. The best games and DMs I have are basically more complicated versions of "Yes And".

[-] Thordros@hexbear.net 29 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

The best games and DMs I have are basically more complicated versions of "Yes And".

DnD with no character sheets is my favorite way to get kids into TTRPG's. Make it all up as you go along. Roll with whatever stupid bullshit they come up with, and throw something even stupider back at them. Write it all down. THEN we make the character sheets, after a couple sessions.

e: Anyway, this is why one of my son's friends mains a wizard with tons of air magic. Because he's a fart wizard.

[-] nohaybanda@hexbear.net 78 points 6 months ago

Players consistently rolling d20-fuck-ya on being based checks while the Zionist prick seethes is just so funny

[-] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 69 points 6 months ago

I can picture it now

He was probably like wojak-nooo You have to enforce the status quo, they're feeble savages!

And the players were like soviet-chad No, we will shatter their chains and free them from the yoke of tyranny

[-] lurkerlady@hexbear.net 69 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

i had a DM boot me from a campaign for 'being manipulative' and 'murder hoboing' after i kept killing blatantly racist nazi characters that our multicultural nation was fighting to survive genocide against. said that i didnt ever give the DM time to roleplay things (because i would gat the nazis in the head with a critfish build). maybe make less cartoonishly evil characters? why would i ever talk to a guy that kills babies

i also unknowingly joined a campaign where the dm admitted that all the goblins the players were killing were jews after i pressed him on his monologue about goblin bankers

[-] SSJ2Marx@hexbear.net 41 points 6 months ago

goblin bankers

Harry Potter, not even once.

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 38 points 6 months ago

said that i didnt ever give the DM time to roleplay things (because i would gat the nazis in the head with a critfish build). maybe make less cartoonishly evil characters? why would i ever talk to a guy that kills babies

Or if you have cartoonishly evil characters they need to be in an environment where the player can not get away with killing them. There's a reason all the nobility live in a walled quarter of the city with its own defences.

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[-] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 35 points 6 months ago

I read a criticism of 'come and see' that I'd never considered, that it was quite liberal. They pointed out how (in the movie) the partisans struggled internally with flat out killing the nazis, and how Flyora while shooting at a picture (hallucination?) of Hitler kept seeing him get younger and younger until he was staring at Baby Hitler and he couldn't pull the trigger.

The poster was saying that it's okay to just flat out kill literal nazis and it shouldn't be causing any internal struggle as they're literally wiping you out, and picturing Hitler as a baby is stupid as you can't time travel and he's not a baby while he's conducting a genocide.

[-] utopologist@hexbear.net 29 points 6 months ago

With that first paragraph, at least, I get where they're coming from but I feel like it's likely that they've never actually killed somebody. Yes, it's morally acceptable and good to kill Nazis, and also taking a life is a thing that sticks with you in ways you don't expect (from what I've heard; I've never killed anybody either). I just feel like that's a weird thing to criticize the film for. I really doubt anybody goes away from Come And See believing that killing Nazis is wrong or bad, just that war is hell.

I could be totally off-base here; I haven't see the film in a long time. But that criticism just strikes me as not really warranted

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[-] LENINSGHOSTFACEKILLA@hexbear.net 68 points 6 months ago

The first thing every DM learns is that the group will never do what you want them to.

[-] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 57 points 6 months ago

DM: "You see a music festival outside the concentration camp."

Player: "I roll for initiative."

DM: "Against the enemies in the concentration camp right?"

Players: "..."

DM: "Against the unarmed goblins inside the concentration camp... Right?"

[-] nohaybanda@hexbear.net 38 points 6 months ago

I roll for acrobatics the-boys-are-back-in-town

d20-fuck-ya

Scoofah!

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[-] CthulhusIntern@hexbear.net 54 points 6 months ago

It's also funny, because said DMs set themselves up to make the anti-semitism allegations as unconvincing as possible, because the players had no idea who the groups were based on.

[-] Llituro@hexbear.net 51 points 6 months ago

my first time playing a ttrpg was a very odd pathfinder campaign about escaping a slave plantation. this was in kentucky so the vibes were off. whole thing ended up sideways when the dm that cooked that up couldn't stop getting too hammered for us to make progress.

[-] SerLava@hexbear.net 50 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Ahahah holy shit

So it was a Star Wars tabletop right? Lmao

[-] Huldra@hexbear.net 46 points 6 months ago

I believe it because whoever that guy is did this with the whole of Last of us 2.

[-] Gay_Tomato@hexbear.net 40 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Neil Druckmann moment. free-palestine zionist-despair

[-] marxisthayaca@hexbear.net 37 points 6 months ago

Common Zionist L

[-] CthulhusIntern@hexbear.net 32 points 6 months ago

It would be funny if the DM thought the problem was that they didn't make it obvious enough the Israel analogy was meant to be Israel, so they try to make it more obvious, but then the players think the DM is a neo-nazi doing a Jewish conspiracy allegory.

[-] AmarkuntheGatherer@lemmygrad.ml 31 points 6 months ago

It's not as if they're terribly different, even the distinction that the DM is a zionist wouldn't change a lot. Their views on the Holocaust are practically the same as neo-nazis. Consider how many zionists

  1. Ignore the non-jewish victims of the Holocaust, some 11 million people
  2. Try to minimise the numbers, claim they're exaggerated
  3. Look down on Holocaust victims, see them as weak

and that's not even taking into account what they say in the comfort of their homes. Just speaking or writing in Hebrew, even in the most public of settings, they immediately reveal their thirst for blood.

[-] SSJ2Marx@hexbear.net 31 points 6 months ago

I love this stuff. One of my favorite sessions of D&D ever was when I was running the classic three parter The Desert of Desolation, and in the second part of that trilogy there's a bit where the players are looking for a missing princess and one of their leads is a group of Drow slavers operating under the city, and of course the instant the players learned that there were slavers they dropped everything to crush them and free the slaves. I was so proud.

I bet some of those players are still here, actually. We should play again.

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[-] TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net 28 points 6 months ago

what do you expect from a hobby invented by white boys with literal 'race' mechanics that determine your objective 'alignment' in older editions and still play into racial caricatures to this day ('noble savage' orcs instead of just murdering hordes, elves as even special-er white people) and even in the best case scenario only encourage race-based divisions whether based on stats or just aesthetic, after all its a lot more reasonable to be 'racist' against a species of literal giant green monsters with boar tusks (that even if a 'good guy' is constantly being whispered to by their Evil God that created them, in most DnD lore at least) than it is to be racist against a human with more melanin in their skin. and the usual semi-historical settings come pre-baked with implicit old-timey attitudes, people expect swords and sorcery type settings to maintain the patriarchy and nationalism pop culture associates with our own history for the most part even if Player Characters are the Special Chosen One that Bucks the Trend. I mean even outside of DnD, how many fantasy media products even cricticise monarchy? how many protagonists are the Rightful Heir that needs to reclaim their Tragically Lost Throne from the Evil Guy?

It takes effort to salvage a worthwhile story out of something like that, and a lot of people just do the easiest/laziest thing and play to the genre tropes. it's hard enough running a tabletop RPG without interrogating the system's racial biases, or that of your own writing, and most people simply won't bother. to the average non-politically aware person, the races become a visual shorthand for real life groups or assumed historical groups, 'elves' are 'cultured europeans' (french, english, etc), 'orcs' are 'misguided savages' at best, 'murdering subhuman invaders' at worst (muslims, mongols, slavic people, etc) 'gnomes' are 'incomprehensible insular artisans' (jews), 'halflings' are 'nomadic pastoralists' (roma) 'dwarves' are 'industrious europeans' (german, irish, etc.). It's obviously not the only way to write fantasy, but for most people this is what 'fantasy' means to them, a bunch of cultural and racial caricatures fighting each other with magic and swords, because its the laziest and easiest to write that way in our society, given the cultural context, genre assumptions, and history of development of the fantasy genre.

[-] CarmineCatboy2@hexbear.net 19 points 6 months ago

what do you expect from a hobby invented by white boys with literal 'race' mechanics that determine your objective 'alignment' in older editions and still play into racial caricatures to this day

to be fair, the entire party was siding with the palestinians like, constantly

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[-] mayo_cider@hexbear.net 28 points 6 months ago

Torturing the DM is a time-honored practice, this just turns it into praxis

this is the new megathread for the next 15 minutes. if the pixel art in your game isn't better than batman for the NES your shit is doomed.

[-] RNAi@hexbear.net 25 points 6 months ago
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[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 24 points 6 months ago

I remember watching Sausage Party, the terrible Seth Rogan movie. At the end it's revealed that the movie is an allegory for the Palestine-Israel conflict lol. I don't remember which side it picked, but the ending was all the food items having sex with each other

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[-] GlueBear@hexbear.net 21 points 6 months ago

Can someone explain the "into DnD but also a Zionist" archetype? Why do I keep seeing geeks consuming very-much-not-fascism media, while siding with fascism irl?

There must be a pipeline, it's like the reverse effect of WH40k fandom

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 31 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Fantasy is heavily pro monarchy. In basically every fantasy setting the king/prince/princess is morally good and want the best for their kingdom and its subjects and outsiders that try to change the status quo are the morally kicking dogs bad people. From there, is easy to slide into fascism.

[-] GlueBear@hexbear.net 15 points 6 months ago

Is it wrong to think that fantasy doesn't necessarily have to include kings and queens in it? Like I think Pikmin is fantasy, there isn't much royalty it.

[-] TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net 23 points 6 months ago

not necessarily wrong but for normies 'fantasy' = LOTR, game of thrones, DnD, world of warcraft, league of legends type stuff. on a spectrum from 'misunderstood '''realistic''' whitewashed history but with magic for some reason' to 'how does this deviantart poster even manage to draw so many belt buckles on their overly detailed glowing eyes steampunk OC'

Pikmin is technically sci-fi to normies because it has space ships in it

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[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 28 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

They're tolkien DnD bros. Tolkien's racialising and pro-monarchy fantasy is where their brainworms come from.

Also japanese anime is absolutely riddled with pro-monarchy fantasy.

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[-] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 16 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Their beliefs are all fantasy so they feel right at home in a made up world they get to write the rules for?

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[-] Utter_Karate@hexbear.net 20 points 6 months ago

Sounds like they found a good group of players.

[-] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 18 points 6 months ago

One time I had an idea for a campaign where the players are goblins in a goblin land under dwarven colonial occupation, never did anything with it but I knew the dwarves would fear and crack down on goblin traditional brewing and alchemy, because the goblin witches can make poison powders and liquids that sink effortlessly between the plates of the heavy armor the dwarves rely on for military supremacy. Only tangentially connected in my mind to Palestine because I didn't really know about it yet, but wanted to share a campaign that never was.

[-] bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 16 points 6 months ago

This story sounds implausible. “Saturday Session DM?” Like there are multiple, regularly meeting games?

Pull the other one.

[-] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 23 points 6 months ago

Not that odd; I used to play with a group where three of us were DMs; One guy DMed 4e on Wednesday night games, I DMed Pathfinder Friday nights, and the third guy DMed a 4e LotR game on Monday nights (although I didn't personally play in this one because he was basing it on the Silmarillion and I had no idea who any of the NPCs were; I subbed for another player on the last session and yep, no idea who any of these characters were).

[-] SkeletorJesus@hexbear.net 20 points 6 months ago

Most of the friends that I have that are into DnD are in at least two games. Some people like doing it more than one night a week and it's hard to find two days out of every week that everybody in the group is cool spending on it.

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this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2024
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